I feel like this right now:

YouTube - Extreme close-up (Wayne's world)

On a loop.

Why do video links get centered in the post in the new style? or is that something I can change in advanced post options?

Not sure I'm a fan, some things are much clearer, others are frightening and new. Also, as uttered before, the most easily disguised site at work suits me :)

If you could design something user friendly, easy to mod, that looked like a excel document I'd be well up for that.

Though I use excel about once a year..

Why do video links get centered in the post in the new style? or is that something I can change in advanced post options?

Not sure I'm a fan, some things are much clearer, others are frightening and new. Also, as uttered before, the most easily disguised site at work suits me :)

If you could design something user friendly, easy to mod, that looked like a excel document I'd be well up for that.

Ha ha, this is an idea that has legs

For me it would be something that looked like a TFS task list :-)

I'm going to be the first to say, I think, that I really like what you are trying to get to here. Just a guess but do you use Emacs? I've always used dark themes in that and this reminds me slightly of a very nice theme called nightcoding nightcoder, something like that, or maybe it was a fluxbox theme.

I use Sublime Text 2 most of the time, and vim when editing over SSH.

You know, I think I'm going to admit defeat with the new style... I'm so close to admitting defeat. It's taken so much effort so far and only the basics are done.

vBulletin is the biggest pile of turd in the world. It's so, sooooo bad. Butchering it to try and make something cleaner is phenomenally hard to do.

And there are fundamental problems that the new style won't solve. Like the fact that it should be possible to have a filtered view of the world: If you only give a shit about Polo, then you shouldn't see anything else. If you only give a shit about Birmingham and Polo, then you shouldn't see anything else.

I am right on the edge of saying: Fuck this shit... this community has outgrown nearly every piece of software I know of.

The only thing that could cope with the size is the reddit code... but that brings problem of its own. Namely that upvoting isn't actually a useful thing for activity based discussions and that it just doesn't fit classifieds at all.

I love the elements of the new design that are in place and working, but hate the rough edges and limitations of vBulletin. My internal debate is whether to fight through the sludge and finish the vBulletin one, or just to fire up Django and to write what I believe to be the right solution once and for all (open source, inviting others to make it happen). It's a real internal struggle, but I do think the new design is a major step in the right kind of direction.

As for the grey background... it's definitely a big deal to people... I'll knock out a white background and see if that helps in the meantime.

Oh, and if I had my way, I'd obliterate that WYSIWYG editor and replace it with a markdown textarea and inline file uploading of attachments. The posting interface of vBulletin is horrific. Just so distracting from just getting content on the screen... and uploads are just broken, the whole way they're done... just so broken.

vBulletin was never really designed for multiple server setups, yet you need a multi-server setup to run a site this big.

Looks OK in firefox, had difficutly getting back to "original version" but logging out hen back in brought me back.

I am right on the edge of saying: Fuck this shit... this community has outgrown nearly every piece of software I know of.

the whole forum ?

gulp, I'd have to get a FT job or something if this died

Off topic I know, but, is there any chance of a dark themed version of the original theme. The whiteness burns my eyes sometimes.

I've set Firefox to use different colours, as I don't like white backgrounds, either, and that's not just an issue here. You can do that independently of web-sites. It's in Options/Preferences where you can set your own preferred colours. I tend to use light green on dark green.

I don't mean "kill it"... I mean, change the software to make it cope with the growth.

2 Big problems as I see them:

1) Diversification of access device (android, iphone, kindle, tablet)... the old design simply does not work well on those things.

2) Growth of the community, gravity of LFGSS as a cycling forum, noise levels and junk.

The devices I can support by changing HTML and CSS as the new style proves. But the growth/noise problem is different. Whilst we all cycle, your specific interests might be different from mine, and certainly amongst some people they really don't want to see or deal with the noise levels associated with the whole forum (when you do a search, you want it to be only amongst the stuff you're interested in and nothing else).

Reddit has things like subreddits and you can divide up the whole of reddit to just the shit that tickles or interests you. It's not really possible to fully block the noise on a hierarchical forum system, which is what vBulletin is (and the same for PHPBB, Vanilla, XenForo, etc).

So I think that LFGSS is getting to the point that unless sub-divided, it will fracture. And that's to the detriment of all, so it's either a case of support it fundamentally or let the place rot because it wasn't supported.

And when thinking of the HTML/CSSdevice diversification... the same problem kinda emerges in which the technology (this piece of software) is at it's limits... the whole templating system was designed to fit together in a certain way (HTML tables) and really fights against being used any other way.

So I'm coming to believe that to solve both of these things, I need to remove the obstacle... vBulletin and traditional forum software. To create something new, something that works to filter the view of the forum to just the shit you're into, that simplifies interacting, that works on all devices as it should.

So I'm kinda thinking, there has to be a thing that could be created which can improve LFGSS so fundamentally that the 2 killer problems mentioned above just aren't problems.

What I'm looking for is to compile a list of all bugs and issues as it stands... so that I have a work list.

As you asked to have a list, David, I've made three (started with one, but there were clearly three distinct themes being talked about), hopefully including everything that's come up in the thread so far. Hope that's helpful. It would be good if people could read the lists first and add to them. Please correct any of your points that I may have misunderstood or misrepresented.

Fixes to new design
Fundamental problems with vBulletin:
Fundamental problems with old design in adapting to new challenges

Fixes to new design:

1. Fix inline moderation.
   
2. Fix user permissions DONE?
   
3. Fix switching between versions?
   
4. Drop-down menu at bottom of page to choose style
   
5. Adjust size of type for different platforms? May interfere with 'one style to rule all' concept?
   
6. New posts/today's posts?
   
7. The post actions (rep, report, quote, etc) are butted right up against the bottom border.
   
8. Add to rep opens a new tab rather than a floating box.
   
9. The first two page numbers are butting together
   
10. Some of the HTML is unnecessary and only adds to page weight, and some is invalid. You can make it a lot cleaner.
    - really? That's been obsolete for years. The name attribute is invalid on the element. If you're wanting to make something link to an in-page anchor (Back to top) then link it to an element's ID.
    And you have loads of

    ---

    elements doing nothing except putting borders on the top and bottom of the , which should just be css borders on the and

    elements with classnames like "big" when you could be applying styles based on them being inside the

    element.
    

11. Search box top right
    
12. Little symbols on the left of the threads showing how many posts they have/if you've posted in it.
    
13. Continue to provide a style that's unconspicuous at work
    
14. Provide black-on-white option
    
15. Once the new HTML is finalised you could in theory have user selectable styles by just changing the CSS.
    
16. Post and reply text is too big, not the entire design. It's the same size as the heading text which isn't great. There's no semantic element that tells you it's the post text. It's just unstyled anonymous text just sitting in a div. Semantically paragraphs should be in

    tags but I don't know if the forum software can do that.
    

17. Rep/comments function
    
18. Make front page more lively? It doesn't look like the front page of a website but a contents list in a book.
    
19. The separation of the posts is terrible; that thin black line hardly works and the line about adding reputation gets in the way.
    
20. Show new posts popping up on the front page in a thread I am following, rather than having to go to each section to check or use the new posts facility. I assume you will be adding the updates of latest posts to the right of each forum heading on the front page but if not, they are not there.
    
21. Keep option to use original style
    
22. You can currently choose whether your mobile uses the full site or the mobile version, could you do the same for styles? I'm liking the new one on my phone, but prefer to stick with the old one on the computer...
    
23. For me, the Post Quick Reply and Go Advanced buttons on the reply box seem to be faded around the text, ie it looks out of focus, but maybe this is just my dpi settings or something.
    
24. The classifieds link at the top goes to the help and testing forum.
    
25. In most forums, some of the links to threads are grey but the 1,2,3... page links are still cyan.
    
26. In forum help and testing, many thread titles/links are grey but I have never read them
    
27. The links at the bottom of the front page with all forum areas: bike polo --> classifieds; general and general go nowhere
    28. travel ----> general, ...
    
28. misc gives me a no permissions problem.
    
29. Is it deliberate that video links are centred in a post?
    
30. Clean up vBulletin's code as much as possible
    
31. Bring back multi-quote. ;)
    
32. Arial font in text editing box
    
    

Fundamental problems with vBulletin:

1. It should be possible to have a filtered view of the world: If you only give a shit about Polo, then you shouldn't see anything else. If you only give a shit about Birmingham and Polo, then you shouldn't see anything else.
   
   1. Fire up Django and write what I believe to be the right solution once and for all (open source, inviting others to make it happen). It's a real internal struggle, but I do think the new design is a major step in the right kind of direction.
      
   2. vBulletin was never really designed for multiple server setups, yet you need a multi-server setup to run a site this big.
      
2. Oh, and if I had my way, I'd obliterate that WYSIWYG editor and replace it with a markdown textarea and inline file uploading of attachments. The posting interface of vBulletin is horrific. Just so distracting from just getting content on the screen... and uploads are just broken, the whole way they're done... just so broken.
   
   

Fundamental problems with old design in adapting to new challenges:

a. Diversification of access device (android, iphone, kindle, tablet)... the old design simply does not work well on those things. The devices I can support by changing HTML and CSS as the new style proves.
b. Growth of the community, gravity of LFGSS as a cycling forum, noise levels and junk. This problem is different from the device problem. Whilst we all cycle, your specific interests might be different from mine, and certainly amongst some people they really don't want to see or deal with the noise levels associated with the whole forum (when you do a search, you want it to be only amongst the stuff you're interested in and nothing else).
Reddit has things like subreddits and you can divide up the whole of reddit to just the shit that tickles or interests you. It's not really possible to fully block the noise on a hierarchical forum system, which is what vBulletin is (and the same for PHPBB, Vanilla, XenForo, etc).

Oliver, the new GA2G

And I think you'll find that's "inconspicuous" :)

I just have to say, I find this new style difficult to follow. There doesn't seem to be enough definition between posts and stuff, I ended up getting a bit overwhelmed and sort of gave up. But maybe that is just the dark background and I would be fine with a lighter background when it arrives? I don't know. It feels a bit clunky and I had to search around for the bits I wanted (but that is probably just being so used to the old style! heh). I never had any beef with the old style, but I don't use the forum very often, nor do I have any design/magic web building tendencies! I just come in, blitz through updated subscribed threads, leave, most of the time.

Also, from my point of view (and I know I'm not representative) I don't mind that everything is in together. If I search for something I just skip bits that come up in threads or forums I'm not interested in. Does that make sense? But as I said, I'm not a heavy user anymore, and rarely venture far from subscribed threads, as I just can't keep up!

Velocio, I don't know if any of that information was useful, sorry for the waffling everyone. The new style fried my brain a bit!

to write what I believe to be the right solution once and for all (open source, inviting others to make it happen).

Isn't that how vBulletin (or other similar forum software) ends up being as bloated as vbulletin.

I share your pain. I have to try and make Telligent make nice clean HTML and it's impossible. The most you can hope for with that POS is to make it fuck up my nice minimal HTML with as little impact as possible.

If it would help I am happy to take the HTML/CSS you have so far, clean it up as much as possible and you can see if it can be implemented.

That's the easy part! Making it working when there are over 300 templates that all composite in different ways is the hard bit.

How about I write it and you integrate it!

can of worms

That's the easy part! Making it working when there are over 300 templates that all composite in different ways is the hard bit.

How about I write it and you integrate it!

Ha ha, I had a feeling it might be like that. One of the things with Telligent is not getting my code integrated, but getting it to stop writing its code.
I suspect VBulletin is the same.

I use Sublime Text 2 most of the time, and vim when editing over SSH.

You know, I think I'm going to admit defeat with the new style... I'm so close to admitting defeat. It's taken so much effort so far and only the basics are done.

vBulletin is the biggest pile of turd in the world. It's so, sooooo bad. Butchering it to try and make something cleaner is phenomenally hard to do.

And there are fundamental problems that the new style won't solve. Like the fact that it should be possible to have a filtered view of the world: If you only give a shit about Polo, then you shouldn't see anything else. If you only give a shit about Birmingham and Polo, then you shouldn't see anything else.

I am right on the edge of saying: Fuck this shit... this community has outgrown nearly every piece of software I know of.

The only thing that could cope with the size is the reddit code... but that brings problem of its own. Namely that upvoting isn't actually a useful thing for activity based discussions and that it just doesn't fit classifieds at all.

I love the elements of the new design that are in place and working, but hate the rough edges and limitations of vBulletin. My internal debate is whether to fight through the sludge and finish the vBulletin one, or just to fire up Django and to write what I believe to be the right solution once and for all (open source, inviting others to make it happen). It's a real internal struggle, but I do think the new design is a major step in the right kind of direction.

As for the grey background... it's definitely a big deal to people... I'll knock out a white background and see if that helps in the meantime.

I didn't know about sublime but it looks good. It'll take a lot to drag me away from Emacs but I don't like lisp and I saw some mention of python on the website so if there is any way to configure it and run pythin scripts on code then ilI would be very interested. I'll have a propper look at it. Cheers

I think it would be a shame if you did give up on the new theme. I like the minimal look you're going for and I think the colours are great and very easy on the eye. Maybe the fact that you and I code we understand the benefit of dark backgrounds and soft colours in tired eyes. There is probably a preference there that many don't have.

Having said that, you seem to have a very clear idea of what you and we need to get from the forum software and where the problems lie in VBulletin. From that perspective, having run a large site, if you have the time, patience and motivation to get something written in django it could become arching very useful and possibly used by others.

If you do decide to go this route, I would be happy to help. I'm going to send you a pm

OK....wtf just happened, I was reading through this thread and (without clicking anywhere), when I change pages the whole things goes into New Style mode.... scary... I don't like it. :( sorry.
I truly feel my sight perturbed when trying to read from the grey screen, don't find it relaxing, maybe just not used to it... I'd still go for the "Old style" anyday. Just my 2p.

OK....wtf just happened, I was reading through this thread and (without clicking anywhere), when I change pages the whole things goes into New Style mode.... scary... I don't like it. :( sorry.
I truly feel my sight perturbed when trying to read from the grey screen, don't find it relaxing, maybe just not used to it... I'd still go for the "Old style" anyday. Just my 2p.

You have something on your computer that pre-loads or visits links for you.

Go to the first post, and choose the old style.

Thanks VB. I'd already solved it ;)

Much preferring the grey BG with blue detailing. The only problem I can see at the moment is the quoted text. It could be that I'm not used to looking out for it yet. Possibly a border around the quoted stuff? Means that you can see if a picture is quoted or not so people don't rant about peas all the time.

I'm not saying that you should copy this, but here's an example of a colour scheme that I get on with very well. One of my favourite schemes - http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi

I like the new logo, but I much prefer the old layout and colourscheme, nice, bright and clear.

I cant get used to it as it contrasts the original style so much. The theme and layout just confused me, but i guess its because clicking the links and getting to different pages on this site is pretty much all down to muscle memory nowadays. I get get to User CP with my eyes closed, far from sober and half asleep.

Also, the Https version of this site (which is what all my bookmarks n cookies are saved as) keep loading up the new layout.