Pre-Play-off Discussion on Reffing; Call for Refs to Meet

How many 30 second penalties have been awarded across the whole league this season? How many should have been awarded? Nothing in particular against John's reffing from yesterday, he stepped up and followed the same patterns reffing has taken all season, at European tournaments and in London.

To be fair, there were a few events where I probably should have stepped in, but as you say I pretty much followed the example I've seen from other refs.

I've been to a large number of league games, and I've only seen one 30 second penalty, I think Jono gave it to Gormley, I can't remember what game it was, or what context. Then again I've hardly seen any incidents, apart from in a handful of games where any intervention might have been needed.

To be fair, there were a few events where I probably should have stepped in, but as you say I pretty much followed the example I've seen from other refs.

Worst excuse ever, up there with Chukkers "light touch" reffing.

It's not an excuse, John made the decisions he thought best at the time. Next time he might do it differently.

Less fallout on refs, more people reffing and more shared knowledge about how to ref.

I gave penalties out at the BFF to Marc, Luis and some others and one in a league game (can't remember who)... I've avoided reffing too many league games as it's nice when other people step up.

Anyone can ref, it just takes a bit of practice and a stern "no nonsense" approach. You read the rules, interpret and remember them and then call/say what you see... this bit is crucial: Call/say what you see and don't be swayed by anyone, talk to people involved after the game if necessary, don't accept any back chat.

Reffing is hard and kudos to anyone that steps up, stop the game and tell everyone to calm the feck down if you want... you're the ref.

One aspect that is going under here is that the ref has to see something before he can call it - if he can't see it, or did not see it then there's not much he can do about it...

Yep and should just say "didn't see it", not "umm, err".

has any other ref, ever had a mallet thrown at them?

Lol

Can the goal refs advise if its not seen by the ref?

Worst excuse ever, up there with Chukkers "light touch" reffing.

Eh? It is not an excuse. It is a valid position in the ongoing debate over polo reffing. Reffing is not black and white, there is some room for interpretation in how strictly to enforce rules.

Some people, Bill e.g., have a heavy-handed approach, thinking that refs should be heavily involved in calling any and all possible violations of the rules, with a very broad interpretation of what constitutes a violation. Others, like me, think that refs should only step in when there is an egregious violation.

But I will be happy to never ref a game that you are playing in again, John.

Examples of ambiguity: elbowing; shoulder checking; tackling.

All of these can be done in ways that are legal, all can be done in ways that are illegal. A ref can err on the side of enforcing everything to the word of the rules (heavy handed) or can err on the side of giving the players some leeway and only calling clearly egregious violations (light touch). If they players are not bitching, why should the ref be heavy handed?

has any other ref, ever had a mallet thrown at them?

I wasn't aiming at you, B, I just threw it (like I have at the end of many games before & NEVER since) and it ended up nearly taking your head off. Totally stupid, and unacceptable. Fully deserved 30 sec penalty at the beginning of the next match in that tourney. Maybe it should have been longer/

i know, it was the last time i have reffed though. too scared now.

Some people, Bill e.g., have a heavy-handed approach, thinking that refs should be heavily involved in calling any and all possible violations of the rules, with a very broad interpretation of what constitutes a violation. Others, like me, think that refs should only step in when there is an egregious violation.

Not true. I am happy not call a foul at all during a match, and, in fact, did not during many EHBPC games. On the other hand, some games need early intervention - it demonstrates to the players that fouls will be punished - with the ultimate objective of seeing a clean, fast, skilful game of polo. Polo not penalties, is my motto.

If the players are not bitching, why should the ref be heavy handed?

So only players who mouth off prompt the ref to take action?

Not true. I am happy not call a foul at all during a match, and, in fact, did not during many EHBPC games. On the other hand, some games need early intervention - it demonstrates to the players that fouls will be punished - with the ultimate objective of seeing a clean, fast, skilful game of polo. Polo not penalties, is my motto.

Fair enough. What is in bold is key. By light touch I only mean to have this goal in mind. We want refs to call egregious violations of the rules, but we do not want refs getting overzealous with their power.

Incidentally, this use to be the norm among NA polo, but with the new push toward standardization (presumably in attempt to move toward professionalization), I assume things will be changing and moving toward a more professional reffing model, which will necessarily, I think, be heavy handed.

If the players are not complaining to the ref about fouls not being called, why should the ref be heavy handed?

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Fair enough. What is in bold is key. By light touch I only mean to have this goal in mind. We want refs to call egregious violations of the rules, but we do not want refs getting overzealous with their power.

The refs don't have power. All they can do is encourage players to play by the rules. If the players either can't or won't, then there is very little the ref can do about it. DTGP vs Toros @ Greif 2010 is a good example.

On the other hand, if the ref is able to establish in the minds of the players that attempting to gain an unfair advantage by breaking rules will not be permitted, generally most players play fair.

Whether the players are winging (or not) should have no impact on the referee's calls.

The ref should read the rules and interpret them to the best of their ability and then call out those that break them.

Arguing over "light touch" or "heavy handed" reffing should instead be an argument about the rules themselves surely?

I like to make the players aware of the ref by stating "that's ok" on most contact, or "out of the way" on foot downs, or regular announcements of the time/score, etc... without that I found it hard to issue tap-outs, etc, as you were largely ignored (I'd argue a "light touch" ref is an ignored/rubbish ref).

I also hate to stop the game and issue a ball turnover and usually make the players aware of this pre-game so we're all on the same page of encouraging a "clean" game ("don't make me blow the whistle", etc)... I'd rather be watching an awesome game of polo than enforcing a dirty one, I'm sure most refs feel the same?

I'd rather be watching an awesome game of polo than enforcing a dirty one, I'm sure most refs feel the same?

Absolutely. Hated calling fouls, didn't enjoy reffing dirty games at all.

The refs don't have power. All they can do is encourage players to play by the rules. If the players either can't or won't, then there is very little the ref can do about it. DTGP vs Toros @ Greif 2010 is a good example.

You are clearly confusing issues here. Refs have the power to stop the game, to eject players, to bin players. Whether a particular ref can or does use this power is a different issue.

I'd argue a "light touch" ref is an ignored/rubbish ref

I don't recall anyone ever bitching about my reffing, but I will be happy to no longer ref any more games, ever.

You are clearly confusing issues here. Refs have the power to stop the game, to eject players, to bin players. Whether a particular ref can or does use this power is a different issue.

I don't think I'm confusing issues here. The penalties are there to discourage players from attempting to gain an unfair advantage, by making it disadvantageous to adopt a strategy of cheating, thus encouraging the players to play cleanly. However, the refs cannot actually physically force the players not to foul.

I like to make the players aware of the ref by stating "that's ok" on most contact, or "out of the way" on foot downs, or regular announcements of the time/score, etc... without that I found it hard to issue tap-outs, etc, as you were largely ignored (I'd argue a "light touch" ref is an ignored/rubbish ref).

Jon, I like hearing you ref a game - i think you do it well, it's a constant narration of where the boundaries are.

I do remember one particular ref who would yell at people to tap out, regardless of whether they were in the middle of doing it or not - very annoying! - but i'd rather know the game was being reffed than leave it until you need to complain to another player about their play.

I don't think I'm confusing issues here. The penalties are there to discourage players from attempting to gain an unfair advantage, by making it disadvantageous to adopt a strategy of cheating, thus encouraging the players to play cleanly. However, the refs cannot actually physically force the players not to foul.

Funny to hear you try to claim that refs to don't have power, Mr Binbox.