Selection process for EHBPC 2011 23-26.06.2011

If the rounds aren't seeded. If they are seeded, the shittest teams are guaranteed an almost impossibly hard game to start with, and middling teams get another middling team. This is my understanding of seeding, not sure if it's right.

Or, you can look at it as the poorer teams get a chance to play a tough team - which is one of the reasons you often hear new teams want to play competitive polo.

Also, by seeding that way (tough vs weak first round) you essentially help along the maths. That is, it encourages a better mid-table, and will result in more accurate games being played sooner. It does not hurt any team so long as you play enough rounds. I'll try to explain:

After round one (top half played bottom half), in round 2 the top 1/4 plays the other top 1/4 (i.e., all the hardest teams play each other) and the bottom 1/4 plays the other bottom 1/4 teams (all the poorer teams play each other).

The result of that second round gives a pretty clear top 1/4 (who beat hard teams), and a clear bottom 1/4 (who lost to weak teams), and a big mess in the middle of teams which have beat an easy team, and lost to a hard team. The point is, you've got this mid-table after two rounds. This doesn't mean the tourney will be over sooner, it just means the mid-table will be more accurate at the end, as they will, hopefully, have played more equal games.

About fairness: If at any point your team has been seeded incorrectly in the first round, you still have the chance to move up (or down) quite quickly. Maybe you were thought to be shit, and got the toughest team in the first round. Second round you're playing a team you should easily beat. Third round you're playing a mid-table team. A win there will put you in the same position as team who just lost their first game. That is, in three rounds, even though you were rated the shittiest team, you've made your way into the top tier.

Surly 1 big tourney just sends the best...bearing in mind this has implications for the worlds right?

This.

nicely explained horatio.

Godammit. Forum software has made me look like an idiot. And it's not as if I need any help, either.

How would anyone notice?

I'm sticking to tags from now on.

hosers gonna hose. Awesome.

Maybe you were thought to be shit, and got the toughest team in the first round. Second round you're playing a team you should easily beat. Third round you're playing a mid-table team. A win there will put you in the same position as team who just lost their first game. That is, in three rounds, even though you were rated the shittiest team, you've made your way into the top tier.

In our case at the London Open, I think that's what happened. I really enjoyed that tournament and the feeling that your previous game's performance influences who you're going to play next. Still, out of 6 games we played Cosmic, Equipe, DTGP and La Schmoove; but that's the luck of the draw if only the first one was seeded.

I now get what you mean about creating more equal mid-tables, thanks!

In our case at the London Open, I think that's what happened. I really enjoyed that tournament and the feeling that your previous game's performance influences who you're going to play next. Still, out of 6 games we played Cosmic, Equipe, DTGP and La Schmoove; but that's the luck of the draw if only the first one was seeded.

I now get what you mean about creating more equal mid-tables, thanks!

Again, the London Open was a bit fucked up, so not a great example of Swiss Rounds at work. Either you did very well that day and should have been playing those teams (in which case, nothing to complain about), or you were bitten by the Swiss Rounds error on that day.

But to be honest, getting to play l'Equipe and DTGP = a pretty good day.

Can some explain why we need to wait for the allocation of places to organise this? Can't we work out the method to select teams before knowing how many teams go? Infact couldn't we even play the tournement(s) before knowing the allocation?

Once we've been given new slots I was going to ask Ale for the breakdown of the teams put forward by the UK and then email addresses of the registrars with details of this thread, then I propose we organise a tourney or agree on a regional split (with everyone's input).

Tourney organisation could start already, yah, who's up for hosting it then? London could do it at Newington? Cambridge? Birmingham? Anyone?

Newington makes sense, 2 courts.

Tourney organisation could start already, yah, who's up for hosting it then? London could do it at Newington? Cambridge? Birmingham? Anyone?

I'm confident that we at Cambridge would be happy for a UK qualifier to happen at our indoor court, as long as we either get help to run it or it is run by others wholly, after discussions with our polo people. Everyone seems really keen.

We have no restrictions and we can play all day and night. Given spring-time, courtside sleeping is more realistic now too.

IMO, we should use the Cambridge court as much as possible.

I'm looking into hiring an (outdoor) court in Coventry for a day or two. I looks great to play on, although we haven't tried it out, because it's in Coventry and even Birmingham looks down on Coventry.

Our ones in Brum we have occasional trouble with and don't really want to jeapordise our regular games by having 30-60 odd people drawing attention to us. It's something we're working on resolving for the future, but won't be sorted in time for this.

What about the urban cricket court? It's so good to play on.

1 big euro quali party!

Outdoor it could rain, cambridge is indoor.

Sleeping in the warehouse is better than paying for it

we have this great court that if cambridge are keen then we should use it!

does 2 courts = 1 day and 1 court = 2 day?

i'm just thinking it mat be easier to find one date that suits most people rather than two.

How many teams do we have?

Probably 30+, but final numbers will probably depend on our allocation.

If we're only given 7 slots then I'd suggest that the number of realistic teams will reduce, however if we're given 12 then it'll go up.

does 2 courts = 1 day and 1 court = 2 day?

i'm just thinking it mat be easier to find one date that suits most people rather than two.

+1, Saturday @ Newington ftw.

One big tourney is they way forward for this year, possibly with a second tourney in a very different location for a few remaining spots. Everyone should try to make the big tourney. But we have a second tourney at different time and place just in case people cannot make the primary quali. Teams can enter one or both.

Only the teams that are going to play the qualis should get to vote on the format.

let's face it, the first UK winners of a World title will probably come from the SuperLuca era as opposed to right here, right now.

Oh really, then how come the US teams that won last year's Worlds both include players, the majority on both teams (2 out of 3), I'm pretty sure, who have been playing for over five years? Joe MKE and Ben Chicago have been playing since Luca was 9 years old.

Sorry, but organizing qualies for the Euros/Worlds is not about inclusivity and the future. It is about finding the best existing teams and sending them to the top tournies this year. Period.