Tour De France 2011

Hoisted by my own petard (or the German equivalent).

I didn't mean to hoist you, I just remembered that comment (primarily because I hadn't heard the term 'flat track bully' before) and found it interesting--I also think you're quite clear there that you thought he could develop.

Greipel wins lots of races but he's struggled in the major events, like the Grand Tours, mainly because he seems to have a habit of losing the wheel of his team mate tasked with leading him out, presumably because he doesn't enjoy the hurly burly of a sprint finish. If you can get him into clean air with 200 metres to go then he's bloody fast.

Yes, he doesn't seem to have the same racing brain as Cavendish. He always gets described by people who know him as calm and gentle.

I think today was perfect for him as HTC used up riders to bring back Gilbert and Cavendish would've gone deep on that last Cat 4 climb to stay with the peleton.

I could be wrong.

It was probably a case of attacking as hard as possible to see if he could stay away, whilst realising that if he didn't it was all the better for disrupting HTC.

The complex multiple motives of human beings, eh?

That seems like it--good tactics in any case, but of course you need a rider who can make it stick. Gilbert's really enlivened this Tour so far.

There was a very touching moment of celebration between Greipel, Gilbert, and Sieberg, who were clearly more than averagely happy about this win, and very together as team-mates.

Cos I don't like him getting a stage win. I was rooting for Cav.

I like Cavendish, too, but I almost always like it better when the underdog wins.

Hell Yeah!

F*ing Flecha. Doesn't even have the bike handling skills to stay on two wheels when he is hit by a car, and ends up with pinarello all over the road. And he doesn't even foot the bill for a new one. Who does I ask you? We, the Sky subscribing public.

Murdoch thread >>>

There was a very touching moment of celebration between Greipel, Gilbert, and Sieberg, who were clearly more than averagely happy about this win, and very together as team-mates.

Seemed like there was some tension building up with Greipel working for Gilbert, and Gilbert closing down VDBs breaks. Nice to see harmony restored.

gutted Vinikourov is out, they will never prove he is half android now

He will be fully android with all the metal keeping his bones together

Why did Tony Martin join the latter break?

To put the onus of chasing onto other teams.

Ah, good point.

Over here there's a lot of talk about riders taking too many risks and endangering the peloton. They're missing a sort of leader, someone that has all the other riders' respect and can regulate the bunch. Cancellara is the one they guess.

Quote from Maarten Ducrot, ex pro and now a commentator on Dutch tv: "in my days, when you misbehaved, Bernard Hinault would just smash you in the face"

Cancellara has tried it hasn't he? But he is no Hinault. Especially this year where Gilbert has eclipsed him.

he's waiting to follow the lance formula.

e+p+0=7?

Everyone talks about Hinault as patron, but what happened since then? I can't believe Indurain was a dominant voice, for example. I think Gilbert was closer to the mark the other day, when he said there have always been crashes, but they get more media coverage now.

Thanks. It just seemed that the attack created a right 'box of frogs' effect on the run-in, and the commentators were commenting on how the HTC train was disturbed.

They were doing that from the front of the peloton. I'm not sure the break made a big difference to the efectiveness.

Gilbert looked so strong for so long. Had this been a single day event he would have smoked everyone (and I would have won the second part of my spread bet).

Greipel sprinted better than Cav. Simples.

Many congratulations to Greipel on Twitter from other riders. Is it because its his first major win or because they dislike Cav?

Both.

Only just caught up with the today's action - fantastic stuff.

Patron, smatron. No one in any form of winning position would give two shits about listening to anyone on a bike, Badger or not. Sure, if it works in your best interests to slow down you will but really, patron, Tour, fuck off. Badger.. come at me bro.. fat old doper fuck. I'll kick your nuts in before ITV can play your highlights tape. Fucking batman kapow hassan chop mofo!

took the words right out of my mouth hippy

Jonny, you're far too polite. You'd just twinkle your eyelashes, wave a Guinness and 'pow' stage winner - J Dub!

Everyone talks about Hinault as patron, but what happened since then? I can't believe Indurain was a dominant voice, for example. I think Gilbert was closer to the mark the other day, when he said there have always been crashes, but they get more media coverage now.

Love him or hate him, Armstrong was a patron. The peloton might not have like it but his opinion held power back then.
Pantani was a patron too, in his day, organizing protests against doping raids in the form of sit down protests at the start of stages.
Indurain was never a true patron because the Spanish culture of cycling is always to be humble and where possible to gift wins when pursuing the yellow/gold/pink jersey. He wasn'r aggressive enough to control the Italians and the French.
Rik Van Looy was a classic patron in the Hinault style - physically aggressive and incredibly proud, someone you really didn't want to fuck with, whereas Coppi kept control simply by being so brilliant on the bike.

This year there are no patrons as such, but the nearest thing probably comes down to Cancellara, Voigt, maybe Millar and Gilbert. It's not about dominance on the bike, but respect for the more seasoned veterans of the peloton. Gilbert is definitely gaining huge respect for his Merckx-like abilities and bravado - a patron in the making?

Patron, smatron. Fucking batman kapow hassan chop mofo!

haha, maybe not a patron per se is the solution, but a general sense of respect for each other could do the trick. it's not about slowing riders down like Cancellara did last year, but showing them how things are done. stopping on the correct side of the road. not passing behind the teammembers handing out the food and drinks in the race. not shoving the guy in the yellow jersey to ghet where you want to be. not plunging into descents in a dangerous manner as a team at the front, things like that...

but yeah they all wanna be up front at the same time and get across the line first. even on my sunday club rides it's hard to reach some concensus on safety and behaviour in the group of about 20, so it won't be easy.