For Sale: Bike shelf

^Sniffy; i think the discussion started on BikeRadar, which we know Johnny Rau used to frequent - and still does under another name.
@Simon - I put 'knock off' in quotes. I was actually sticking up for you, pretty much, though obviously I can see why other people would take the view that you shouldn't reproduce other peoples' designs.
It was an unlucky day for you that JR got in touch.

^Sniffy; i think the discussion started on BikeRadar, which we know Johnny Rau used to frequent - and still does under another name.

Ah! for sure. I forgot about that

SimonAH, as you were. I think Will said it good'n'fair.

JR

This is something else that needs a jonnyrau photoshop:

I figured I would weigh in on this, not that what I say is all that important...

I charge the amount I do because of the time I put into design and production of the pieces. I'm not looking to rip people off, this is a new profession I am trying to start at and I am doing what I can to make a living doing it. If you think it is too expensive, then you should not spend your money on it. I completely understand where you are coming from. The truth is, I hand make all of these shelves and need to charge a price that makes sense for me to do so, considering time spent making them, the amount I am able to make in that time vs. what I could be making spending that time on other projects, etc. They take a certain amount of time to make and I have to put a price on my time, just like I assume all of you do in your respective jobs.

I do think it is kind of lame for someone to knock off a design and sell it to other people (as opposed to making it for themselves), but it happens all of the time and I expect it. It's flattering I guess. It is not the most genius/earth shattering design in the world, I understand that. But, it is something that for whatever reason people seem to like and now there is a (small) demand for it. What I think is particularly in bad taste is when people go on my own site and offer to knock it off and try to sell it there, which has been done. Just seems like if you are going to knock someones design off, at least do it on your own site.

Lastly... I took these photos myself in my garage with a friends low end Canon for anyone who cares, not with a Hassleblad in a studio. Not sure that even matters, just thought that comment was funny.

... Pine is also a very cheap lumber compared to Walnut, which is about 8 times the cost.

I also registered here just to say, that after so many years, I grew weary of all of these lame JR jokes. There are so many people in this world, whose initials are "J." and "R.", that using a character, whom I played 20+ years ago is really, really annoying.
Also, why doesn't anyone ever quote or watches, for that matter, *I Dream of Jeannie? *If you purists are against someone copying someone's "design", if I may call it that, of a book shelf, why do you allow yourself to joke in regard of someone's honest and fair acting job?
I don't think I have anything else to say to you, pitiful and sorry lot.

2) How can I make it for £65 delivered?

Because compared to the original it's lacking all of the quality of the original?

fairplay, knifeandsaw.

@knifeandsaw,

I have done you a disservice, my apologies. Your site is sufficiently professional that on looking at it (very briefly, I honestly deliberately didn't spend long looking at your shelf as I didn't want a slavish copy) I thought you were one of the Stickley type companies.

And absolutely, walnut is a far more expensive lumber than pine. If you are making from solid walnut then that is going to bump your costs right up.

And...whilst I'm eating humble pie....hell of a photo for a friends garage!

O.K. Reason why I stepped in and offered to make these is because (check the thread in BikeRadar Commuting Chat Bike Shelf) a number of UK people, who like myself are regular contributors, saw your product and said effectively 'drool, really like, can't possibly afford' - including me.

There it is. I've nothing more to add.

@knifeandsaw,

I have done you a disservice, my apologies. Your site is sufficiently professional that on looking at it (very briefly, I honestly deliberately didn't spend long looking at your shelf as I didn't want a slavish copy) I thought you were one of the Stickley type companies.

And absolutely, walnut is a far more expensive lumber than pine. If you are making from solid walnut then that is going to bump your costs right up.

And...whilst I'm eating humble pie....hell of a photo for a friends garage!

O.K. Reason why I stepped in and offered to make these is because (check the thread in BikeRadar Commuting Chat Bike Shelf) a number of UK people, who like myself are regular contributors, saw your product and said effectively 'drool, really like, can't possibly afford' - including me.

There it is. I've nothing more to add.

If cost of lumber is the issue in the expense then why didn't you see if he could make one from cheaper lumber and not have to copy it?

Jazzhumper

I think he wants to make an artisan product out of the best materials possible.

Some people aspire to excel, others just aim for mediocrity.

Yes I understand, that's not what I'm arguing about, I think SimonAH should ask the original maker to make him cheaper versions he could sell on, not rip off his design, or at least license his design from him, afterall without the initial idea he wouldn't be able to make his 'beer money' I aak fully aware if knifeandsaw didn't come up with the idea first I'm sure someone else would have! So it's a difficult situation?

This thread is really annoying me. Starts off with Rau (annoying) and now is starting to look like SimonAH is going to get shouted at by the copyright police or something (annoying) for basically little more than knocking something up in his own time.

Fair play to knifeandsaw, his shelf looks beautiful quality, walnut is a lovely wood and I think it's a cracking idea. However, it would never occur to me to pay £300 ($?) for it. I buy tonewoods for guitar building, I know wood is expensive, I get how your pricing is justified, but... but... but it is pretty pricey.

'Others just aim for mediocrity'. Is that really the case? Surely you just mean 'you get what you pay for'. Of course a £65 job won't be finished as well as a £300 one.

I can't afford a custom size built Roberts frame, but want one badly... however, I can braze and plan to build my own frame next summer. It will cost a fraction of the price of a Roberts and will likely be much poorer quality, yet I expect to be congratulated / mocked (depending what it looks like!) when I post a picture on here. What's the difference?

This probably won't go down well, but here goes.

It's a shelf, that holds a bike. While it's a very nice idea, it's not exactly genius (no offence caused to the first guy to do this, which I doubt was knifeandsaw) If I was a guy with a passion for cycling some decent carpentry skills i'd make my own too. If some of my friends wanted some i'd make some for them also.

I really don't see what the fuss is all about, if you want an expensive one (which I admit is higher quality) from America, paying a lot in delivery costs and waiting quite some time, go ahead. If you want one that does the exact same job for less money and with a smaller waiting time, there's one for you too.

And what is it with this constant expectation that something has to be 'high quality' or 'only the best will do' to be even borderline acceptable?

Simon's rack looks perfectly serviceable to me. All those people commenting on how it's not the be-all and end-all probably aren't thinking about buying one (off anyone), anyway. They're just judging things in a highly theoretical and speculative way on an Internet forum.

Concentrate your fire on the real bad traders, I say.

i totally agree with both mick and schlick, if you want the best one, buy it, if you are more then happy with one more in your price range do it.
knifeandsaw won't be losing out from the cheaper ones.

It's interesting to see how many people couldn't get their hands in their pockets quickly enough to buy the distinctly 'Raphaesque' Torm jerseys...praising the guy for being able to produce something which did the job just as well but for far less money, and yet here we have the same situation yet people have criticised Simon's effort...banging on about how it won't be as good quality etc, without even having seen it.
It may not be the same wood, but it doesn't mean it's a shit quality knockoff.
Plenty of people were ordering those jerseys without having seen them or knowing how well they're likely to last.

All just my opinion of course. ;]

i totally agree with both mick and schlick, if you want the best one, buy it, if you are more then happy with one more in your price range do it.
knifeandsaw won't be losing out from the cheaper ones.

Murts can hammer one together for youse all. £6.15 incl. p&p.

if you look in the tags, you will see my "introductory offer of £10"

:p

for two!!

that's right, roll up!!

Pffft, selling via tags now? Is there some sort of forum 'Black Market' going on there? :)

I'm building shit quality bike racks out of balsa wood. It will have the brand name of your choice (Rapha, D&G, Diesel, etc) written on the side with biro.
You can buy one for £500. Estimated delivery time is 6 months.

I think a lot of the initial hatred was due to the jonnyrau factor..

individual requirements, like being able to lock the bike to the shelf with a D lock. Can do.

Er...

Given that the two operations are on opposite sides of the pond, I can't see any possibility of their being in competition. Simon's version clearly isn't a "knock off", since he hasn't inspected the original or even tried hard to replicate it based on available pictures; it's just a version of the same concept to his own design.

Given that the two operations are on opposite sides of the pond, I can't see any possibility of their being in competition. Simon's version clearly isn't a "knock off", since he hasn't inspected the original or even tried hard to replicate it based on available pictures; it's just a version of the same concept to his own design.

finally some sense prevails..