Paris Brest Paris (PBP) LFGSS 2011

This sounds like fun!

Count me in.

These two look good for me, nice and local! Will check out others later on.
I have been planning to do next years DD for a while, it'll be my first :)

By the time you get to DD it should be pretty easy going. Just some extra overnight training. I'll only do it the conventional way if there's a LFGSS support wagon though, otherwise I'm doing it backwards.

By the time you get to DD it should be pretty easy going. Just some extra overnight training. I'll only do it the conventional way if there's a LFGSS support wagon though, otherwise I'm doing it backwards.

There and back (as about 350km) will be very good training for day 1 of PBP.

Most people on PBP will have a 7pm-10pm start and you'll be unlikely to have built up enough of a time buffer for sleep until the second night, even then you'll only be grabbing a couple of hours.

Even if you knock off the first 450km of PBP in 27 hours (by 10pm hopefully) you've only got about 3 hours in hand. The timings are slightly skewed in that you've only got 40 hours to do the 600km to Brest and then 50 hours to do the 600km back.

indeed some of them ride incredibly fast considered the distance and lack of sleep (I presume they don't do 'kips'). I just read that the fast lot in the 2007 PBP had an average of about 30kph: 44 hrs 50 mins... wow.

the PBP pdf brochure is here

In 2003 at 24 hour point as we rode in to Loudeac, the group of fast riders who had set off two hours ahead of us were on their way back on the opposite side of the road, amazing how they can keep that speed up for that amount of time.
A Belgian won it with a time around 45 hours and I think they had two hours penalty for rule bending.

There and back (as about 350km) will be very good training for day 1 of PBP.

Most people on PBP will have a 7pm-10pm start and you'll be unlikely to have built up enough of a time buffer for sleep until the second night, even then you'll only be grabbing a couple of hours.

Even if you knock off the first 450km of PBP in 27 hours (by 10pm hopefully) you've only got about 3 hours in hand. The timings are slightly skewed in that you've only got 40 hours to do the 600km to Brest and then 50 hours to do the 600km back.

I'll probably end up heading back out across Suffolk and Cambridgeshire until I get too tired and hop on a train to Sheffield.

^ The 1951 PBP was a race though (the last one I think) and not an audax. Is that year still the course record time?

Yes 1951 was the last race, and yes Diot's time of 38 hours 37 minutes is still the record. It's unlikely to be broken since the route is now longer and less on main roads: the distance in 2007 was 1227k., compared with 1182k. in 1951.

The fastest time for 'randonneurs' seems to be Scott Dickenson in '95, who did 43hours 20 mins. for 1245k. To put this in a British TT perspective, I notice that in 2007 John Warnock (Twickenham CC) finished PBP in 50.25 against the 'winner's' 44.33. This year Warnock took the 24 Hour Championship for the second time - his distance was 520 miles!

I think Diot and Muller's ride in the 1951 race is one of the best stories in cycling history, but I'll leave you to look it up.

Hooray, the Pedalcar racing calendar has been published and there aren't any clashes with training or PBP. It's a good year when you can do two stupid things.

Ok

Friday meal at place in the evening and a ride out to Henley saturday

Game plan is to meet up discuss training etc and get out for a social slog.

MATT ha, tsk, dj in attendance.

Anyone else wish to join in?

Would be interesting to here about the training and the actual race.

I certainly wont be racing, just be happy to make it back to Paris!

Twenty years after Opperman’s victory in 1931, Marice Diot, the victor of the seventh edition of Paris - Brest - Paris covered the 1200 kilometers of the route in 38 hours 55 minutes and 45 seconds. This was ten hours faster than the earlier winner.
The courageous rider Robert Chapatte had given the peloton difficulties at the race’s start, taking a lead of a quarter of an hour at the Brest turnaround at the beginning of the second night. The Parisian, who was hampered by a groin injury, kept up his solitary break until, close to Morlaix, he stopped and abandonned the race after a misunderstanding with his handlers. It was at Vitre that the two favourites, Diot and Muller, began an offensive. Twenty-two kilometers from the finish, Muller flatted, but Diot waited for him because he wanted to play out the race for victory at the Parc des Princes. At the finish line, he recorded the victory by a half-wheel.
Translated from the website of the Cyclo Touristes Maurepas
by Ken Dobb
January 19, 2003
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ctmaurepas/articles/pbp.htm

http://www.randonneursontario.ca/history/phprace.html

If dancing james, teddy, matt ha, other forumengers, some random frenchman flats 22 km from the finish then I'll stop for them.

Perhaps take a little nap.

If there's a pattisserie 22km from the finish, then I'll stop for that!

Stupid question but what are people like when they finish Mentally? Worked on a 24 hour race and that meant 48 hours of no real sleep and that really messed me up and brought out strange personality traits.

It's not a stupid question! I diagnosed myself as insane 2 hours from the end and went completely off route in search of an asylum. Quite a sensible course of action on reflection.. No one answered the door though. I think it was the hypothermia caused by wind and lashing rain. Seeing nuns and astronauts in the bushes was caused by meeting up with a certain Catford rider at the stop where I was expecting to sleep. I'm fine now..

brought out strange personality traits.

yeah, i fear that prolonged sleep deprivation will cause scary acid flashbacks. my last trip (years ago) was a bit of a bummer.

A tale from the 2007 PBP, courtesy of YACF, who's long winded ramblings on the subject are the source of much tedium, occaisional entertainment and a useful amount of knowledge.

Mr Larrington was doing quite well on PBP, but had managed less sleep and more caffeine pills than is strictly advisable. He left the Mortagne-au-Perche control, headed for Paris, but shortly thereafter became convinced that his recumbent cycle was trying to kill him, so he threw it inna hedge and walked back to town, passing out upon arrival.

When the medics brought him round and asked who he was, he declared himself Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche and promptly keeled over again, waking up 24 hours later in a hospital room, attached to a machine that went ping.

They kept him in for a week because the they said that the huge doses of caffeine that he'd been taking had done funny things to his heart. Thankfully, his mind remained utterly unaffected...

BTW, I have come across Mr. Larrington and it is difficult to determine what would affect his mind.

LEL went like this for me:-

Reasonable sleep in the week leading up to LEL, to try and minimise sleep debt.

Saturday: Spent most of the day sorting out my geared Audax bike to lend it to someone doing LEL who'd found a crack in their frame the day before. Minor adjustments required, then we spotted the broken spoke, etc, etc. Also had to go and queue for registration for LEL which took 4 hours plus 2 hours getting to Cheshunt and back (from SW15).

Got everything else sorted and went to bed at around midnight.

Sunday: Up at 5am. Pick up car (Streetcar from end of our road), pack everything in. Drive to Cheshunt. Wave teary goodbye to Mrs G. Mill around ready for 8.15am start. Do 320km up to Thorne by 12.30am or so. Faff around for a few hours (not really ready for sleep) grabbing food. Also had a shower. Finally felt sleepy so had 3 hours sleep on an airbed that was in my drop-bag.

Monday: Up at about 6am, coffee and breakfast and out on the bike by 6.30am. Get to Eskdalemuir (630km) at about 2am. No showers available, found a space on the floor to get a couple of hours kip.

Tuesday: Up at 6am, left loads of stuff at the control and about 7.30am headed off up to Dalkeith and back. Got to Dalkeith Rugby Club at about midday. Had a shower, swapped stuff with stuff in drop bag (clothes, fitted new rear tyre) and headed off at 1.45pm. Got back to Eskdalemuir at 7.30pm in an absolute deluge. Sat around for hours chatting to people (should have had a sleep instead). Got bored of waiting at 10pm and headed out as it wasn't going to get any better for a while. Very heavy rain until Langholm, then it cleared up, more rain at Longtown but that stopped after an hour or so. Got the dozies cycling along the A7, the arrows telling you to merge lanes were turning into cats looking over their shoulders. Fell asleep a couple of times whilst on the bike. Pro-plus wasn't really helping (see bit about should have used the 3 hours at Eskdalemuir for sleep not chatting). Had an hour long kip in a porch at Brampton wrapped up in my space blanket. Felt better and made for the next control at Alston, half way up Yad Moss. Got there at about 6am. Had some food and grabbed a bunk for 3 hours sleep.

Wednesday: Up at 10am. Over Yad Moss, and onwards to Thorne. Got there at 2am or so. Had a shower and a couple more hours sleep on my airbed.

Thursday: Up at 6am, breakfast and out the door by 6.30am. Nice flat trundle home. 24 hours to do about 290km. Now in a group of 5 or so, stopped for lunch on a nice bit of grass in the sun near Wansford. Took our time getting to Gamlingay (10pm or so) and still with hours to spare the last section was slow. Stopped to buy some beers in St Neots (4 cans of 1664 in the rack pack were good training for the last 60km). Group swelled as we picked up a Belgian and a few others. Slow progress as someone needed to stop because of the dozies. Once they were ok someone else would get them. Then I got the dozies again with 15km or so to go. All rolled in to the finish at 3.30am.

Friday: Stayed awake chatting to people at the finish (with beers) until Mrs G arrived at 6am to pick me up. Stayed away for the rest of the day too, didn't feel that knackered at all (mentally or physically). Slept like a log that night though.

So, during the ride:

3+2+1+3+2 = 11 hours sleep during the ride.

I was riding for almost exactly 70 hours, so averaging near bang on 20kph moving average. That leaves 45 hours off the bike (or stopped at junctions or faffing). If 11 hours of that were sleeping I reckon a good 25 hours were spent eating.

I would have had more, and/or finished earlier if I'd used my time at Eskdalemuir better. I should have either gone straight back out and got to Alston for midnight-ish. Or slept for 2 hours rather than sat there talking. That would have saved me 2 hours at least on the section to Alston. I could then have started the next day at 6am and got to Washingborough on Wednesday night leaving just 180km to do on the final day and a daylight finish.

Either way, I wasn't a wreck at the finish, but then I deal with sleep dep quite well (especially as baby GB has cured me of my inability to wake up before 7am).

You'll be a lot better acquainted with yourself after you've done the 300, 400 and 600 qualifiers. I've seen many people able to do 200s and 300s much faster than me, but then fall apart on a 400 since they just can't cope with being awake that long.

As I said before, doing the Dun Run and back in one go will be great training for the first night of PBP. What you've got to remember is that you'll finish the Dun Run and back and have 3 or 4 hours sleep before needing to set off and do it twice more again with only a few hours kip along the way.

PBP is harder as the minimum average speed is higher. If it was the same distance as LEL you'd have 13 hours less to do the ride in, roughly the total time I managed to sleep on LEL, so either I've got to get faster or smarter. This is all part of my plan for PBP.

Sleep is my major concern. I know I can do a 400 without too much trouble, and without needing any sleep, but have no idea what to expect on longer rides. Oh well, only one way to find out!

just again

"Ok

Friday meal at place in the evening and a ride out to Henley saturday

Game plan is to meet up discuss training etc and get out for a social slog.

MATT ha, tsk, dj in attendance.

Anyone else wish to join in?"

pm if you wish to come along friday night or add name here if you wish to come for the ride on Saturday

just again
MATT ha, tsk, dj in attendance.

Anyone else wish to join in?"

pm if you wish to come along friday night or add name here if you wish to come for the ride on Saturday

kristian 4 Saturday, where and when?

^i have answered kristian's question via facemail as we work at the same studio.

... then you work with my mate from uni, too!

/notthatexciting

does he skid the fixed wheel?

He does have a fixed gear, he's on here actually, but doesn't post that often.

Have a good ride today folks, weather is looking ace!