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Thron? Lugs not filed? Lovely frame though.
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These are beautiful frames , love the colour. Wish I had the cash.
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Lovely, lovely, lovely
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Thron? Lugs not filed? Lovely frame though.
I am going to approach this very seriously, because it is nice to eloborate on it a little.
Dutch tend to be pragmatic people. With their relationship to bikes it is no different. Already the Batavians were not very concerned with decorating pottery, axes and weapons. Function matters, no sissy things. Stuff has to do the job surprisingly well (given their no nonsense profile) or is worthless. The bike frame is a tool and this Duell is already showing quite some extravaganza with the paintjob (see also the other frames under the pic link) and especially the engraved autographs. How different it all was with the Romans or for example the Japanese empire - think of the sword of a Samurai knight. While with Italian stuff it sometimes acts as facade to cover up everything unpleasent more Italian products were notorious for, fine Japanese frames are usually sincerally nice. Opinion, no fact.
On the Thron tubing: Thron uses the same steel as SL or SLX, but benefits from new insights in tubing design. In the end, given the size and the purpose it was often used for (criteriums: 400 corners on small village roads), the package works really well. One should try it, to know it. A 320 gbp experiment, but it comes with a fine frame.
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I am going to approach this very seriously, because it is nice to eloborate on it a little.
Dutch tend to be pragmatic people. With their relationship to bikes it is no different. Already the Batavians were not very concerned with decorating pottery, axes and weapons. Function matters, no sissy things. Stuff has to do the job surprisingly well (given their no nonsense profile) or is worthless. The bike frame is a tool and this Duell is already showing quite some extravaganza with the paintjob (see also the other frames under the pic link) and especially the engraved autographs. How different it all was with the Romans or for example the Japanese empire - think of the sword of a Samurai knight. While with Italian stuff it sometimes acts as facade to cover up everything unpleasent more Italian products were notorious for, fine Japanese frames are usually sincerally nice. Opinion, no fact.
On the Thron tubing: Thron uses the same steel as SL or SLX, but benefits from new insights in tubing design. In the end, given the size and the purpose it was often used for (criteriums: 400 corners on small village roads), the package works really well. One should try it, to know it. A 320 gbp experiment, but it comes with a fine frame.
Thanks for the reply Ko! When I asked Peter Serier many, many years ago why didn't file the lugs of the frames he built he answered that Dutch customers weren't interested in that sort of thing. English framebuilders certainly took a different view, and filing lug ends was functional for them.
I looked up Thron to refresh my memory (I thought it was a step down from SLX/SPX/TSX) and found it's plain gauge. Is that correct? I never rode one so can't comment; always rode SP/SL, SPX/SLX, Max, etc etc.
As I said, it's a lovely frame!
Cheers!
P.s.: another memory: Jan van Dalen once told me he didn't use Dedacciai EOM 16.5 because he felt it was too light. Framebuilders are a curious sort! He now lives in Baarle Nassau, not in Hoek van Holland anymore, iirc, not far from my motorcycle dealer...
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You spoke to Mr Serier? Cool. I never had the oppertunity to speak to him. Peter Serier is definately among my favorite Dutch builders. From what I've heard he had a background in fine mechanics and that extra eye for detail is absolutely visable in his frames through clever detail solutions, like for example the sophisticated seatclamp with extra slot and drilled ends under the clamp. I can really appreciate that. I have a fine ensemble of Serier frames, both Prestos and a Peka.
On the tubing: Tubesets like SL, SLX, TSX are earlier than Thron. All use Cyclex steel. Tubing like for example Max uses Nivachrom, a bit later and a step up when it was introduced. Thron is butted tubing >>> http://ceeway.com/Thron.htm It also doesn't feel like 'plain gauge'. Far from.
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You spoke to Mr Serier? Cool. I never had the oppertunity to speak to him. Peter Serier is definately among my favorite Dutch builders. From what I've heard he had a background in fine mechanics and that extra eye for detail is absolutely visable in his frames through clever detail solutions, like for example the sophisticated seatclamp with extra slot and drilled ends under the clamp. I can really appreciate that. I have a fine ensemble of Serier frames, both Prestos and a Peka.
On the tubing: Tubesets like SL, SLX, TSX are earlier than Thron. All use Cyclex steel. Tubing like for example Max uses Nivachrom, a bit later and a step up when it was introduced. Thron is butted tubing >>> http://ceeway.com/Thron.htm It also doesn't feel like 'plain gauge'. Far from.
I visited Peter Serier's workshop in an old warehouse in Amsterdam, over twenty years ago I think. Didn't he move to Giant later? Anyway, he stopped building frames because he couldn't make a living out of that and now doesn't even want to talk about it.
Thanks for the lesson on Thron; I must've been misled on the net somewhere...
Did you post pics of your Presto's and Peka?
P.s.: my (twin) brother has a Rauler. Now that is something special :-)
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Peter Serier did "something" for Giant, when they just started in Lelystad.
He made a contribution to the 1st Giant team bikes (when they took over the Amstel Bier team). Remember the weird TT bikes, not exactly beauties imho.Nothing to do with Duell though, which is 100% Jan van Dalen.
Jan was already building frames when he was still an active racer.
I have a pictures from myself riding next to him, "Omloop door het Land van Bartje" 1980, we're from the same generation.Jan has been riding for the Gazelle Campagnolo team for a couple of years, but stopped racing when his frame making business became serious.
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I have a pictures from myself riding next to him, "Omloop door het Land van Bartje" 1980, we're from the same generation.
This post is no good without those pics.... :-)
I started racing in 1981(on a Holdsworth with tubs); those were the days!
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This post is no good without those pics.... :-)
Will take a while. Must dig deep into my "archive"and scan it.
Free bump for Mel's Duell...
Hate the position of the decal on the LH fork blade (talking about deails) ;-)
Surprised that a c/s bridge is missing. I know that the effect (pos/neg) of such a bridge is doubtful... -
Will take a while. Must dig deep into my "archive"and scan it.
Free bump for Mel's Duell...
Hate the position of the decal on the LH fork blade (talking about deails) ;-)
Surprised that a c/s bridge is missing. I know that the effect (pos/neg) of such a bridge is doubtful...If you look at steel bottombracket shells now, designed for glueing in wishbone carbon fibre chainstays, you might wonder how we did it in the old days, when we were a lot stronger...
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Did you post pics of your Presto's and Peka?
No and I do not have pics of all yet. There are two Prestos of his hand, one green and one gold. Both use 531 tubing. The Peka is blue and uses Columbus SL. It has Nuovo Record brake levers that are modified by him. They accomodate aero routing now and cable run neatly through the bar. I have been told it took 5 bars before he was happy with the result.
1st pic - The extra slot I already mentioned >
2nd pic - Not much doubt about its origins: Amsterdam! >
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Surprised that a c/s bridge is missing. I know that the effect (pos/neg) of such a bridge is doubtful...
It can probably do without because of the OS tubing and high profile chainstays. A Colnago using Thron tubing I had also lacked one. Dito for most if not all Max tubing frames I've seen.
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Nice! Peter Serier's trademark capping of the seatstays!
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Nice! Peter Serier's trademark capping of the seatstays!
He learned/stole that from Jan Legrand and GODV
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Bologna....Lovely frame and paintwork! Pity its too big for me.
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About
For Sale: Duell Bologna frameset, NOS
Posted by
Offering early 90s Duell frames, New Old Stock
In the Dutch road scene Duell is famous for their serious performance aimed frames with excellent handling characteristics. Duell is the creation of masterbuilder Jan van Dalen and all frames are handbuild by him. Steel only.
The frames I am offering are new old stock frames using the best tubing from Columbus. They show nice detailling, like engravings of logos and signatures in various frameparts. Absolutely no savings on paint quality, like with some Italian thoroughbreds. View the many pics available under the links to form your own impression.
Duell/Jan van Dalen still makes fine steel frames. No longer brazed with lugs, but all welded instead. Visit the Duell website: www.duell.nl
This Bologna
Great build quality and the ride some many rave about comes with this frame. It is a mid 90s frame. Spec it with DA, Record, Chorus or any of the other quality groupset and if the legs are there you will be tough to beat on especially fast twisty courses.
The Thron OS tubing uses Columbus Cyclex steel like with SL or SLX. It looks like the tubeset benefits from influences introduced with the Max tubeset, for example with the high profile chainstays. It saves an additional bridge, what saves weight. It is definately more oversized than the mentioned SL or SLX, but with lifting it I do not feel a noticable difference in weight with the SL and SLX Duells.
The paint is a multiple tone red tiger paint. The effect it gives is heavily influenced by angle and light.
Condition:
NOS. Price sticker still present.
Looking 320 GBP shipped
View all pics >>>
Go HERE
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/4996292610_b68fcaf612_b.jpg
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