New 1x10 project advice?

Link..

an increasing number of cyclo-cross racers are choosing to run a single-chainring drivetrain to reduce the chance of mechanical failure

It is a bodge-job.

^pure ignorance

Just because a practice is widespread, for example...brakeless riding, doesn't mean that its acceptable, right, or clever. Too many stupid people just follow the crowd, and if a lot of people do it, then it must be okay. Fail.

A chain crossing over too large a distance and too many times, is not a good idea. Just because it can work, doesn't mean its the best solution. There are better solutions and designs, even if this one is widely used. It is a bodge-job. Ask any engineer.

My reasons for going the 1x10 route aren't to do with being a "stupid" person out to "follow the crowd", I am 35 for christs sake so I'm too old for worrying about all that superficial bollocks.

The reason for doing so is because it is a setup I have ridden with for many years (all be it 1x8), and it works exactly as I wanted. I totally agree that it isn't good to ride on the extremities of the ratios because it will cause more strain on a chain, but as these will be rarely used it won't be much of a problem. If it really was THAT stupid I don't think Campagnolo would have created 10 speeds in the first place, so I think to suggest it is a "bodge job" is maybe a little harsh!

If indeed there are lots of people turning to this setup, maybe it is just a reflection of the amount of people who see having more than a single gear as being an advantage? That is no disrespect to those who do, because at the end of the day everybody has their own idea of what THEIR perfect setup is, and I prefer to respect that, just as I respect your opinion that you don't agree.

^pure ignorance

You are right, but the ignorance is not mine.

Purely from an engineering principle, the less a chain moves from side to side, the more efficient the power delivery. Don't believe me? Ask any mechanical engineer. It's not like I actually have engineering credentials, I don't. Sadly, my academic background was in neurobiology. But my view remains, that the purest form of drive delivery on a bicycle is the method of least flexibility and lateral movement - track cycling.....and a fixed gear. Ipso facto, the more lateral movement within the drive-train, the less efficient. As said before, it will also be the cause of wear and scraping at the edges of the chain.

I am guilty of using just such a set up, when I did courier work, and it was reliable and trouble free. But just because it worked without failing, didn't mean that essentially it wasn't a clever and workable bodge job. It was, but it worked very well. There are more effective means of changing gear, and separately, obtaining optimum drive. Please feel free to disagree. As usual, I will nod and give a sympathetic look.

Even the OP perfectly understands what the principle is, and as anyone who has been on this forum a while will know, I have always supported and promoted the cheaper options. It's normally the one I always have to choose.

billholding, unfortunately you appear to have ignored the fact that my statement was a direct reply to the quoted part it was attached to. I don't know you on this forum, so I'm thinking you may be newish on here. I had NOT meant that you were stupid. In fact you seem quite intelligent to me. Apologies that you mistook my comment as being directed at you. It really wasn't. Maybe as you read further in what I have written, you will realise what I meant.

billholding, unfortunately you appear to have ignored the fact that my statement was a direct reply to the quoted part it was attached to. I don't know you on this forum, so I'm thinking you may be newish on here. I had NOT meant that you were stupid. In fact you seem quite intelligent to me. Apologies that you mistook my comment as being directed at you. It really wasn't. Maybe as you read further in what I have written, you will realise what I meant.

Ok, I misunderstood who it was directed at. I am far from new here, and have been a member since early 2007, I just haven't posted that much until recently. I've tended to only visit forums when looking for information etc when looking into a new bike, not because I'm not interested but because otherwise I find too many excuses to spend more time and money on bike stuff!

As I said I completely agree with everything you have said regarding the gearing setup, and the opinions of everyone here, are the main reason i visit the site in the first place.

Slightly confused by all this.. why would you bother with 1x10?

Sure you may only use 10 of the gears but if your going to all the hassle of a bashguard/chain retention and your already buying a set or ergo's, why not just run 2x10? At least that way you'll have the option to use them if you need and it'll cost about the same.

Seems bizarre to me.. and a well set up front derailleur will cause you no problems at all.

Slightly confused by all this.. why would you bother with 1x10?

Sure you may only use 10 of the gears but if your going to all the hassle of a bashguard/chain retention and your already buying a set or ergo's, why not just run 2x10? At least that way you'll have the option to use them if you need and it'll cost about the same.

Seems bizarre to me.. and a well set up front derailleur will cause you no problems at all.

I was also wondering this. Can understand it for cyclo racing etc. but the weight penalty is minimal for general riding.

to the OP =Is there a particular reason you prefer this setup?

1x9 set ups are pretty common in MTB'ing, come as standard on many machines, and are made to work, not a bodge - many timetrial riders use 1x set ups too with no problems.

Made to work is an apt expression of the concept. As with all concepts, there is the benefit and the negative. The benefits DO outweigh the negatives in some or many cases, but it is not a pure design, but a remedy for a particular issue. Doing away with the front derailleur will still allow selection of several gears, but the negative is the amount that the chain swings from side to side. In a good design, this would be minimized. For time trial riders and even commuters, the less mechanicals to deal with, and the less weight, the better. I concur with this, but please don't pretend that just because OTPs are sold this way, means that the design is a good one. Its not. Its effective, but its still a bodge. The manufacturers simply have decided that the wear to the chain and the side friction, is worth the weight loss, and the lesser price of components.

Well youve only proved yet again that you dont know a thing about bicycles!

A pity that you said this without a smiley, because otherwise people would have thought it was a joke, and would have laughed. Instead it exposes your very flawed line of thinking. I agree though, that there are many things that I think, that others usually disagree with, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong. If you know of any top bicycle mechanics, like a TdF one for example, try to persuade her/him, that a 1x10 is a good design, as opposed to a 3x10. Please report back when you have done this.

As I keep saying, and the OP has totally agreed with.....1x10, or a 1x9, will address an issue, and effectively, but it is a clever and workable bodge. I used this bodge for years, and it was brilliant, but I was always aware that the chain was being worn and so were the chainring teeth, at a less than healthy angle. It therefore needed weekly checking.

I repeat, you have no idea what you are talking about, and the more you argue your point, the more this becomes apparent.

You sound like a person clinging to the last life-raft, in the middle of the ocean, shouting FIRE, FIRE!
Sorry me old macaroon, but your ship has sunk.

And you sound like and idiot! Seriously can you not even see how failed your arguments are?

Take the chain - For starters a 1x9 with the chain ring centered on the cassette, will require far less chain movement than a double ring set up!

You live on your own little world sometimes

No it wouldn't. Because the front derailleur moves the derailleur to narrow the angle.
Please, would some bike mechanic come on here and answer this? Or at least PM VV so that he's not embarrassed.

The whole purpose of the front derailleur is to narrow the angle that the chain is moved across, between the front ring and whichever of the rear cogs that is chosen. It adjusts the chainline on-the-fly.

ga2g you are talking about efficiency not whether something is mechanically sound

derailleurs move at angles now as well as in and out, so that puts less pressure on the chain

Nope, I never broached the idea of mechanically sound. I specifically said that it is a bodge, or an impure design, that was made to work....and worked well. I have also said that I used that set-up for years, with no issues, a long time ago. It was a mechanical design principle that I had discussed.

Of course a 1x10 is workable. I used a 1x5 very successfully. But minimizing a chain's lateral movement across a distance is a primary design brief for lessened wear and smoother running. The trade off is only small for a 1x10 set-up, compared to a 2x10, but it is there.

No it wouldn't. Because the front derailleur moves the derailleur to narrow the angle.
Please, would some bike mechanic come on here and answer this? Or at least PM VV so that he's not embarrassed.

The whole purpose of the front derailleur is to narrow the angle that the chain is moved across, between the front ring and whichever of the rear cogs that is chosen. It adjusts the chainline on-the-fly.

So your seriously telling me that if the chain is on the biggest chainring, and the biggest cog of the cassette, that it is under less stress than on a correctly set up 1x9 set up?

Come on GA2G, perhaps you have been spending too much time getting advice off the top notch mechanic friends at Caramel Cycles!

Nope, I never broached the idea of mechanically sound. I specifically said that it is a bodge, or an impure design, that was made to work....and worked well. I have also said that I used that set-up for years, with no issues, a long time ago. It was a mechanical design principle that I had discussed.

Its not a bodge! Do you really think big companies would sell OTP's with this set up if it was a bodge?

As a mechanical design principal (whatever that is) it is perfectly sound

if a chainring is centered in the middle of a cassette then there is minimal chain movement, there is probably more movement on a double ( with correct shifting patterns) than there is on a single

so from what you saying every geared bike should have hub gears? because its mechanically right/efficient/pure

I specifically said that it is a bodge, or an impure design, that was made to work....and worked well.

if its made to work and worked well how is it a bodge?
usually a bodge has flaws in the design and don't work
i can see there is minor flaws but not enough to brand it a bodge and if it works it works

The whole purpose of the front derailleur is to narrow the angle that the chain is moved across, between the front ring and whichever of the rear cogs that is chosen. It adjusts the chainline on-the-fly.

No. It simply forces the chain onto a different chainring when employed. After which it is not in contact with the chain. If when shifting along the rear cassette the front derailleur comes in contact with the chain, it needs 'triming' out of the way.

Also a 1x9 set-up on a MTB is often aided by a one sided 'chain catcher' and a bash guard. So for a road set-up the Paul guide above may be a better option. Although you are more likely to drop the chain on the inside. If it is a problem at all.

Not at all. For speed, weight and ability to repair and tune quickly, a derailleur beats an internal hub. Easily.

there is probably more movement on a double ( with correct shifting patterns) than there is on a single

Sorry, I disagree.

On a 1x10, a chain would move from being in-line with say gear 5....and then swing out to gear 10, or gear 1. Thats moving 5 cog spaces in eother direction

On a 2x10, the front derailleur would move the chain on the small ringto position it self in-line with gear 6 or 7, and then move over 4 gears. Then when the chain is on big ring is positioned over gear 4, again, it would have a spread of 4 gears. The crossover from gears/cogs 5 and 6, from either the big or small chainring, would be acceptable.

No. It simply forces the chain onto a different chainring when employed.

My fault for not being clear.

I had meant in usage by someone who knew how to use a derailleur for best performance. Of course that would mean using the chainrings and cogs with minimum crossover potential.

The whole purpose of the front derailleur is to narrow the angle that the chain is moved across, between the front ring and whichever of the rear cogs that is chosen. It adjusts the chainline on-the-fly.

What the fuck are you on about? The only purpose of a front mech is to lift the chain off one ring and drop it onto another.

Once it's done that job it's pretty much redundant, and has nothing to do with chainline.

if its made to work and worked well how is it a bodge?
usually a bodge has flaws in the design and don't work
i can see there is minor flaws but not enough to brand it a bodge and if it works it works

Because at worst, if not carefully looked after, the chain, cogs and chainring teeth will all wear laterally, which could cause misfortune. A well adjusted set-up would not exhibit this lateral wear nearly as much. At best, it only requires parts replacement at more regular intervals. At worst, by someone who never checks their components for wear, there is a mishap waiting to happen.

What the fuck are you on about? The only purpose of a front mech is to lift the chain off one ring and drop it onto another.

Once it's done that job it's pretty much redundant, and has nothing to do with chainline.

This is so incredible, it must be quoted.

You think that the chainline is NOT affected when the chain moves from one chainring to another? Please, get someone to hold your bike steady, and you look from behind, as the chain moves from one chainring to another, and see if the angle is changed. Use an outer or inner cog for referrence.

A chainline on geared bikes is adjustable. Or hadn't you ever noticed that? It can be perfectly in-line over different gear rations. This is probably easiest seen on a 3x set-up.