Does anyone own a Canyon?

Yup, the Large size Canyon has Stack of 579 and Reach of 395, while the Rose 59cm has Stack of 585 and Reack of 401.

So, both pretty comparable, and both roughly similar to my 58 square track frame, with quill stem, but it's obviously hard to have a direct translation.

The brand thing doesn't phase me really, especially as they're both direct purchase German brands! They're probably all coming from the same factory anyway, and it's not as if the Rose is plastered with garish graphics/awful logos.

That said, the Canyon is probably more recognisable, but I'm not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing!

Without wanting to start a huge tangent, what are people's opinions on compact chainsets?

The Canyon comes with 52/36, the Rose has the option of 50/34. Both running 11-28 cassettes.

I just naturally selected it on the Rose, as the option was there, and I can see myself needing more gears uphill than I would down!

I know I probably won't need the really spinny gears in Norwich, but I have a friend in the Peak District who I have every intention of riding with a lot more once I'm geared up - will I rue the day I went for the Canyon and lost those two teeth on the front?

You can select it on Canyon too (when you order).

The gear ratio is very personal; you need to flesh out the requirement. If you have a certain loop that you do for example, what ratio do you use on your current bike? Is it faster/slower/better/worse etc.

If its relatively flat you could go 52/36 with an 11-28 cassette. 36x28 when shit hits the fan.

Disclaimer: I have an 42x36 on my winter road bike.

Ah, I never got that far, and I didn't see it as an option. That puts the Canyon back on the cards then.

Current bike is 48/18, fixed.

I can happily sit between 90-120rpm to just cruise along if it's flat/slightly downhill, but obviously once it gets a bit steep, my cadence goes to pot, and it's just a case of how long I can hold on before blowing up.

As I say, the majority of the roads I ride on it Norfolk aren't a problem at all fixed, however I went up to the Peak District last summer, and had a torrid time, culminating in walking my bike up Winnats Pass which I don't want to repeat!

I'd like to say I'd see the benefit of smashing along in 52/11, but in reality I know that I can spin well, so would only need the gears to get me over 20%+ climbs rather than to propel me at 70kph.

No idea how any of that translates to variable gearing though, other than I hope I'll be faster and less tired around the same routes.

Its all personal. Switching cranksets (or even cassettes) isnt hard. I wish there was flat riding around me ;)

Ha, don't wish for it man - it's so tedious sometimes!

I've just stuck the numbers into BikeCalc and as I expected there's barely any difference between 36x28 and 34x28 anyway - just less than two gear inches - so I can't see it being too much of a problem either way. And as you say, I can easily change my mind later on if it comes to it.

I have to says I can't really tell that much difference unless on the mountain.

On the flat, the difference is minimal, bear in mind a new chainring is very expensive.

I think I'll go compact then, just to be safe in case I do end up on a mountainous trip at some point!

I can't see myself needing much of a variation on the 70 gear inches I'm on at the moment on the Norfolk flat, so would probably pick the closest gear and stick with it for the most part.

As a brand Rose is a bit German Ribble for me .. Canyon is in line with Rapha (literally now too).

Your a ribble.

FWIW, the usual English hill was doable with 52/36 as the 36 was low enough to work.

The biggest advantage of the 11 speed 11-28 is that it got a great spread that doesn't have a big gap between each gear (exactly the same as a 11-25 in 10 speed), in fact most of the pro team now ride predominantly on 11-28, whether in the past they have to choose a ratios depending on the stages.

I just found an article that said almost exactly that. Something about the new 52/36 with an 11-28 essentially being the same as the old standard compact of 50/34 with an 11-27. You're right that I'll encounter the really steep stuff only very rarely, and could probably get over it with 36x28 anyway.

One word of warning; 11 speed chains wear out very quickly, quicker than 10 speed even.

The advantage for me is that I can more money replacing chain regularly, the disadvantage obviously for you is having to buy new chain in a much more regular interval to prevent even more expensive wear to the cassette and (thankfully, rarely) the chainring.

Remember, what gearing the pro ride on isn't comparable to what us mere mortal ride on.

50/34 is perfect, even 46/34* was plenty for me allowing a nice spread in the middle.

*Abet a tiny bit spinny in the Pyrenees I must admit.

That's ok. I know I won't get anywhere near as much time out of an 11spd than I do out of my track chains, but then equally, it won't get used daily like my fixed bike does, so shouldn't be too unmanageable. Will invest in a chain wear indicator though, for certain.

Look like Canyon only offer the 52/36 now - got all the way to the check out without being offer a chance to change.

If I want compact, it'll have to be the Rose.

I can happily sit between 90-120rpm

Great base Sir

I've got a 50/34 + 12/28 on my CAAD 10, and I've used 34 + 28, on Ditchling Beacon and thats about it, but I've run out of gears on the top end a whole lot more.

That's interesting, thanks. I looked at the relative speed at cadence, and figured I'd never even hit the 42mph which you'd get at 130rpm on 50x12, let alone the 46mph you'd get at the same cadence with the 11t!

Push it up to the potential 52x11, and that's 48mph.

I suppose if you're really hammering it down a long straight hill you'd easily reach those speeds though - again, Norfolk isn't exactly a hotbed of long descents, so I don't have much real world experience of them.

Ride the gears you'll use.

50-11 at 100rpm is 36mph which is sufficient for most mortals and would allow for climbing hills in comfort.

I did 90km/h with 46/11.

On paper that mean I would have to do 172rpm.

I didn't, I just tuck into an aerodynamic position and glide the bike down the mountain.

Don't worry about the top speed, worry about your average and climbing speed, reckon you made the right call and you seemed to have enough information to decided.

I think I'll just ask a LBS to take a bike out for an hour or so when I'm back in Norwich and see how I get on with whatever gears are on offer, compact or otherwise.

There's a 300m ramp at about 15% gradient just outside the centre which should prove a good test for the low end, and another bit of a hill down the road so I can see how fast I can go.

At least then I'll have some real world experience, and can make a reasonably informed decision.

Simply put. How often do you think you'll actually be pedalling faster than 35mph?

FWIW the difference between 52/36 and 50/34 is pretty small to really notice a big jump.

Especially on a bike that weight less than 7kg.

I think it's got a bit lost in all the discussion. I'm totally in agreement with you and Ed about the top speed element. I'll very rarely be pushing 40mph, and even if I did, I could manage that on 50x11 no problem based on cadence. Anything more than that, I'll just tuck and glide, as Ed professes.

My big concern is buying a flashy road bike in order to get up hills in the Peak District with a friend of mine, and annoyingly running out of gears on the really steep stuff. I just want to ride one of the variations to know how either 36x28 or 34x28 will feel.

Once I decided which is preferable, I can choose the bike. Compact would be the Rose, 52/36 would be the Canyon as it doesn't seem like they offer compacts any more, annoyingly.

Rose then.