Is it time to start calling out bad cyclists?

So you rely on a stranger being able to spot hazards that you can't and point them out to you?

no. I would just consider that to be a nice thing to do for someone. there was a pothole on waterloo bridge that I used to see people hit for example. it was small by very deep so I would just give it a wee point to when I rode past it.

Always wondered what the purpose of the left hand round the back pointing right thing was all about. Whats wrong with just sticking your right hand out a bit? Is the left round the back more aero for your time trial commute? Watch those watts...

Right arm out means that you are turning right. Arm round the back means that you are moving out to avoid an obstacle.

OLC does the left hand round the back thing to warn of peds that are about to wander into the road. I'm usually behind him so he points out potholes and does a wavey finger thing for glass.

I go by; arm high is turning, arm low is changing lanes, and opposite arm around the back is just a little movement within the lane.

This is all more complicated than I first thought...need to call out myself for lack of cycling etiquette knowledge.

Gang signs.

There are really 2 things happening here. Firstly these people are pointing out of hazards and signalling what they are about to do, and that is unquestionably a good thing, although a few glances behind would be a nice addition. The second thing, and the one that I think is irritating some of us, is that they are ostentatiously using what they think is the secret language of the serious cyclist to demonstrate their superior promuter credentials. After all you've spent 6 months salary on some carbon, slithered into a skin suit and slathered your danglies with Official Sky Team(tm) chamois cream so pointing left with your right hand and yelling "car up" every time you see a cab coming the other way is just the logical next step.

^^pair of Sidis thrown over the telephone lines?

I go by; arm high is turning, arm low is changing lanes, and opposite arm around the back is just a little movement within the lane.

WTF? Do people actually do this? That's confusing as hell, no wonder car drivers get frustrated. What's the difference between 'arm low' and just pointing out a pot hole?

Here comes an obstacle, I'll take one hand off the bars and put it behind my back. Well that's really fucking sensible.

Not ranting at you Tenners, just the concept.

I go by; arm high is turning, arm low is changing lanes, and opposite arm around the back is just a little movement within the lane.

WTF? Do people actually do this? That's confusing as hell, no wonder car drivers get frustrated. What's the difference between 'arm low' and just pointing out a pot hole?

Here comes an obstacle, I'll take one hand off the bars and put it behind my back. Well that's really fucking sensible.

Not ranting at you Tenners, just the concept.

Always wondered what the purpose of the left hand round the back pointing right thing was all about. Whats wrong with just sticking your right hand out a bit? Is the left round the back more aero for your time trial commute? Watch those watts...

Right arm out means that you are turning right. Arm round the back means that you are moving out to avoid an obstacle.

TW2 nails it.

I use the secret language of trackies and just move my right elbow out to the right very slightly.
I assume everyone knows this means I am about to pull out and therefore don't bother looking over my shoulder

There are really 2 things happening here. Firstly these people are pointing out of hazards and signalling what they are about to do, and that is unquestionably a good thing, although a few glances behind would be a nice addition. The second thing, and the one that I think is irritating some of us, is that they are ostentatiously using what they think is the secret language of the serious cyclist to demonstrate their superior promuter credentials. After all you've spent 6 months salary on some carbon, slithered into a skin suit and slathered your danglies with Official Sky Team(tm) chamois cream so pointing left with your right hand and yelling "car up" every time you see a cab coming the other way is just the logical next step.

Excellent!

I thought HC said arm at hip-height was to indicate changing lanes and an arm out at shoulder height was a turning?

Same as what TW2 said, but with the additional lane changing thing.

To be fair, I agree with the sentiment from earlier that within London you can't point out all hazards etc., so I really only do so within a group ride.

Boringmouth interlude.
Chopper races past me and a few drivers at lights as they go to green. Zooms down a hill in charmy, his knees splayed out like a tuppeny whore, yellow jacket flying free as we approach temporary lights at bottom of hill.
He dives left rljing to guarantee every other human in the vicinity mouths-WAC

i have no problem with people pointing out hazards, i'd rather people were thinking about the other people around them than living inside their own little bubble and riding like there's no one else around.

considerate riding > selfish riding > oblivious riding

not sure why it annoys people so much when they're not doing anything to actively interfere with your riding.

This. There are plenty enough tossers out there who don't give a monkey's. If you point whilst swerving to avoid something, that seems fairly clear. I usually make eye contact too.

I'm always pointing out glass and bigger holes, even to drivers occasionally. Force of habit from years of marshaling.

Come to think of it, I can't recall a stranger ever doing that for me. F***ers!

I normally only cycle over Waterloo bridge to Somerset house and back to Waterloo each day so don't witness that much awful cycling. I went to Finsbury park today. My god, I forgot how terrible some cyclists are at riding their bikes...

I normally only cycle over Waterloo bridge to Somerset house and back to Waterloo each day

Lordy, and I thought the London end of my commute was short (KGX to Lincoln's Inn). Compared to that it's pretty respectable.

I thought HC said arm at hip-height was to indicate changing lanes and an arm out at shoulder height was a turning?

Don't go higher than shoulder height though, else it all gets a bit Nuremberg.

There are really 2 things happening here. Firstly these people are pointing out of hazards and signalling what they are about to do, and that is unquestionably a good thing, although a few glances behind would be a nice addition. The second thing, and the one that I think is irritating some of us, is that they are ostentatiously using what they think is the secret language of the serious cyclist to demonstrate their superior promuter credentials. After all you've spent 6 months salary on some carbon, slithered into a skin suit and slathered your danglies with Official Sky Team(tm) chamois cream so pointing left with your right hand and yelling "car up" every time you see a cab coming the other way is just the logical next step.

That'd be "car down" though.

What does a sort of loosely open fist waved slowly from side-to-side mean? I get that a lot from people.

On the double.

although the fist should be clenched.

What does a sort of loosely open fist waved slowly from side-to-side mean? I get that a lot from people.

I just mimicked that in front of my parents......

What does a sort of loosely open fist waved slowly from side-to-side mean? I get that a lot from people.

Repped