Is it time to start calling out bad cyclists?

Sometimes when I cycle at night, I feel guilty just by being slightly in front of my rear light. That's how fucking righteous I am.

Yeah.my halo surrounds me like the ready brek boy, with every immaculate stop at the lights, smile at old ladies and stroke of puppy

I don't think saints stroke their puppies while smiling at old ladies.

I can't tell is mike using irony to call himself out or is he a dickhead?

#jumpredsifyouwantbutdon'tbitchwhensomeonecallsyououtonit

Good point and one which I was expecting.

Whether or not I am a dickhead is open to debate. Perhaps I am, perhaps not. I like to think the people who have met me would agree that I am not. My point is and this is still bugging me, what gives one person the right to shout at another if their behaviour has no bearing on them. I was waiting at a set of lights this morning at the top of Portland Place. They were live lights (cars coming from left and right) yet three cyclists jumped them. Way more dangerous than my left on red. Yet it never crossed my mind for a single instance to call them out. And if I had, I could have quite rightly expect to be told to fuck off.

I can see the moral argument as raised by RPM but by me offending someone's general moral principals by breaking the lax (mildly) he moved it to the particular by insulting me directly. Not only that, he struck a blow to the core of my being. I absolutely fucking hate being told what to do. This goes back to my authoritarian up-brining and anger management issues. I don't need a psychologist to tell me that. I'm still fuming about it as I type.

Where does he draw the line. Dogs not on leads in parks? People dropping cigarette butts in the street? I'm still struggling with this one.

My personal opinion was and it's an easy one. Mr A type didn't have a good start to his day. And I hope he felt even worse after I abused him.
Cunt

Good insult, but Type A is just an alleged personality type, not a personality disorder.

Lol I know that. I view it is a disorder though, more than a type :)

^^ genuine question do you shout at car drivers when they're in the wrong?

I used to if it endangered me directly. Now I just shake my head and give them a wry smile.
If they do something very dangerous that almost results in an accident to me then I will give them a quick mouthful and be on my way. Also, if they do something very dangerous towards anotehr cyclist then, if I catch up with the, I will politely say, your driving skills are not great

i am trying so hard to be calmer and more responsible nowadays

Gruppy shit box dropped a load of litter on my street the other day. I picked it up and asked him to put it in the bin 30 feet away. He went batshit at me. I can only assume he figured that this was a preferable response to admitting he was being a dirt monger and eating humble pie.

I know, I know... 'is it time to start calling out people who drop fruit salad containers' thread >>>

Gruppy shit box dropped a load of litter on my street the other day. I picked it up and asked him to put it in the bin 30 feet away. He went batshit at me. I can only assume he figured that this was a preferable response to admitting he was being a dirt monger and eating humble pie.

I know, I know... 'is it time to start calling out people who drop fruit salad containers' thread >>>

That effected you as it was on your street. If a driver is coming down my road at 40mph I will give them the finger straight away. Because it effects me. I have a cat that has already been run over, I have friends with children on that street.

Fair dos

so mike your saying you dont give a shit unless it affects you? nice to see your concerned with the safety of other road users and not just your own.

so mike your saying you dont give a shit unless it affects you? nice to see your concerned with the safety of other road users and not just your own.

I used to if it endangered me directly. Now I just shake my head and give them a wry smile.
If they do something very dangerous that almost results in an accident to me then I will give them a quick mouthful and be on my way. Also, if they do something very dangerous towards anotehr cyclist then, if I catch up with the, I will politely say, your driving skills are not great

No, if you had read this bit then you would not have been able to come to that conclusion. I am saying I don't have time to take the world on my shoulders and am merely wondering, where does one draw the line?

Apologies to the guy who I suspect is on here riding a destickered black Langster (I think? Something semi stealthy anyway) who pulled out onto Seymour Place yesterday without looking. You weren't that close to me and probably didn't deserve to be called a moron. When you turned around and apologised I felt instantly terrible.

Yesterday was by far the worst day of the year so far for commuting, traffic was horrific all the way home and I ended up being threatened by a middle aged man on Lordship Lane of all places. Pinched me against the pavement by not checking his mirrors before swerving then chased after me, blocked my path, got out of his car and threatened to 'actually run me over' when I called him an arsehole.
Charming. Reported him to the Police but they can't do anything, and I don't have much faith in Roadsafe - the guy at 101 had never heard of it and he was a cyclist!

My point is and this is still bugging me, what gives one person the right to shout at another if their behaviour has no bearing on them.
It does have a bearing though. We're all sharing the road and we're all affected. A cyclist cruises through a red light and the drivers who sit and watch are going to afford the same respect to other cyclists as that guy did for the law. Don't be afraid of traffic, be traffic.

wobbles off to rlj thread to weep

Mikec - you ask a good question when you say what give a person to shout RED when they spot a RLJ.

I freely admit I do it every now and again (shout rather than RLJ). The reason I do it is because I see it as my duty as a responsible citizen to challenge what I'd say was irresponsible behaviour. I'd do the same with somone littering, somone beating the crap out of their partner or driving with a mobile phone.

The reason I do it is because I feel that unless somone challenges them then that sort of behaviour becomes the norm. I'm not saying my intervention is effective but unless someone stands up the poor behaviour will dominate.

Now on the specifics of RLJ I'd argue that to a degree someone doing it affects me. Why? Because the car driver that sees the RLJ thinks (incorrectly) that all cyclists are 'road taxi avoiding twats' and this attitude may manifest itself the next time the driver is behind me when I'm in the primary position down a narrow road and he thinks 'why the fuck should I wait until there is space to overtake thise RLJing twat - whay not have a laugh and push him into the door zone'.

Now I accept this is an extreme example but not impossible. You can also argue that this type of twat would do this anyway but I think that grater cooperation between road users means that there is greater understanding and this can only be a good thing.

RLJing is illegal for a reason but I do take your point that in the situation you describe you doing so presented no danger. However it is the shared observation of the 'rules of the road' that lead to a much safer, much more predictable cycling, walking and driving environment. Perhaps more importantly it does not give fuel to the arguments that some of the motoring lobby or which ever anti-cyclist group you chose to pick will make in order to demonise cycling. We've seen the government justify major policy change, for example around housing benefit changes, by presenting the 3 families claiming £100,000 in benefits as the norm rather than the miniscule percentage it actually is.

For these reasons (and often the safety of the cyclist - I do see a sizeable proportion of the RLJs do it in a dangerous way) I'll probably shout. I do wonder if a kind word would work - it never seems to. Perhaps I come over as a pompous twat but I tend to think it appears to be a common reaction that when somone's failings are pointed out rather than accept them with good grace they instead attack.

I sort of hope the shame of being called out in front of a group of peers makes them modify their behaviour. It tends to happen.

Anyway that's why I do it.

A good answer. So it basically boils down to me not looking at the bigger picture and it being left to those who are aware of it, to point out to others for the sake of the greater good.

Fair enough I suppose.
So my actions are in essence selfish. I suppose that goes with my overall character. I can't have any complaints there. Still screaming at someone is not an effective way to bring about change

^
agreed but I am addicted to RLJ occasionally NEVER do it by causing safety issues to me or any other road user. Is that equally wrong? If so, guilty as charged . . also maybe you have already shouted at me but I use headphones all the time :P

I'm getting increasingly annoyed by people pulling up on each side of me at the lights such that there is one person 1' to my left, and another 1' to my right. What's wrong with staggering a meter behind me?

Taking off between two wobbly nodders can be scary, so I'm then having to gun it as soon as I see orange. Crap.

^I don't like this either, but I just wait for them to go first then cruise past them, much less stressful.

^
agreed but I am addicted to RLJ occasionally NEVER do it by causing safety issues to me or any other road user. Is that equally wrong? If so, guilty as charged . . also maybe you have already shouted at me but I use headphones all the time :P

Think for a second why there might be no safety issue with you RLJing. Is it because all the other traffic has stopped at red lights, allowing you time to do so?

Think about it: if nobody stopped at red lights there'd be chaos right? So there's a system in place to install some order. Because that system's in place and people adhere to it, you're then given an opportunity to go against it for your own personal gain but only because others make the tiny sacrifice of waiting for the good of the system.

Going past the E&C roundabout the other night I saw a cyclist make a couple poor, slow moves while in the primary position heading towards OKR. He was clearly in the wrong, simply not paying attention and cut off the taxi multiple times. He had some sort of apoplectic exchange with the taxi driver while cycling. When it finished I was going to tell him off but changed tactics and instead tried to catch the taxi and give him my support and apologies on behalf of other clear-headed cyclists. Go positive instead of negative innit. Caught him at the lights before the flyover but they changed and I lost him. I guess should have had words with the cyclist. It was a lose-lose-lose situation for everyone in the end :(

I'm getting increasingly annoyed by people pulling up on each side of me at the lights such that there is one person 1' to my left, and another 1' to my right. What's wrong with staggering a meter behind me?

Taking off between two wobbly nodders can be scary, so I'm then having to gun it as soon as I see orange. Crap.

There is a simple solution to this. Everytime you stop at the lights just start doing an impromptu aerobics routine. Fling your arms out to the sides like the do in that bit in Flashdance where she's on that chair, that and wave them about a bit. Make it look a bit more disco by throwing in some head movements and you have the triple bonus of people not willing to go near you 1) as you are likely to hit them during your on bike dance routine 2) they don't want to get too close as they think you are crazy and 3) they'lll stay behind you so they can safely laugh...

^^ somewhere last night a cabbie was regaling his wife with the tale of how some cyclist was swerving in front of him, had a go at him and then for no reason another cyclist started chasing him down the road...

;)

Mike, it seems the person calling you out has caused you to think about your actions more than if he'd been a bit more subtle.

Seems to me he did the right thing. Personally I stopped relight jumping because of the number of times I've been in a conversation with someone who says 'all you cyclists jump red lights'... You are effecting those conversations, even if you don't know it. For that reason until cyclists are seen as just as law abiding as motorists I will call you and anyone else I see rlj'ing a dick head.

(that's not true I don't tend to call people out on jumping reds as I don't see it as that dangerous most of the time)

Even when I was old enough to start riding my bike to secondary school, I still remained in primary. That's how fucking assertive I am.