Moderators (requests and notices)

naughty users (like James) wern't given chance to rehabilitate either.

You're kidding me. He had more chances than anyone. More warnings and temp bans than anyone... he proved beyond doubt that he never understood and took responsibility for his part in the incidents he was involved in (both trolling on here and all of those spats on the road) and that as such he would never rehabilitate because he never saw himself as part of the problem. That epiphany would never occur whilst he avoided the internal acknowledgement of his actions and what they led to.

The number of times he was told he was on the thinnest of ice is incalculable (I run out of toes and fingers to count on). I'm willing to look at things with rosy glasses, but it's a stretch too far to suggest that James is an angel who could've just turned good if only he'd been given yet another warning.

Perhaps will paste this time (I'm not on a computer and DJ didn't appreciate fully my last post, bastard).

+1 warnings made no difference

Time required to contemplate my own shortcomings and responsibility much more important

Still say keep foffa public

Was not insinuating my past misdeeds should be hidden

(from DJ)

Merge and keep it public. If in 3 or 6 months he has proven himself maybe move it to private. He shouldn't be able to censor his history. Maybe in 6 months his thread will be full of positive feedback, and it won't need moving. My 2c.

.....He shouldn't be able to censor his history...

If someone has been harshly treated and has done everything to turn this around, only to find that when they have done good, that past comments seriously hinder their business......I'd want at least to start with a clean slate.

People who have always worked for other people, and will always do so, have a very different view of business life to those that have actually experienced it, or understand it. That is very clear.

Merge and move.......because I also believe companies (and some people) deserve a chance of redeeming themselves. I think Foffa has moved on from the past mistakes. High prices aren't criminal, especially if the customers are happy with their purchases. Deserves his chance to build his business, in ridiculously tough times.

Fully support this.

For another reason too.... Foffa thread/s been far too dominant on occasion and it blows the wider forum good news, stories, rides, bikes n'benefits apart.

Sticking it in Private keeps LFGSS on wider cycling themes, and away from drifting into single-issue, google findable, 'obsessive looking', threads.

I shall now return to lurking.

Mario Vaz had a similar problem with a thread title a few months ago. The title was changed to be less derogatory. That came from pressure within the forum, as far as I know.

Without wanting to limit what an OP says, couldn't the title be re-worded, merge & leave public?

No, Mario's thread title was changed because it was no longer valid, he's doing a good job for a decent price, the thread was started because he didn't do a good job and for me that's exactly the reason why the foffa thread shouldn't go private either.
People were able to see past the negatives with Mario Vaz and I'm sure that if Foffa's pricing changes on the "vintage" bikes and he's selling a good product where the new bikes are concerned I'm sure people will be able to see past his previous mistakes/errors as well.

If we're starting to put threads in private because said company was useless and is now good etc. etc. it's actually a credit to the forum and the company for turning their business around and listening to their customer base?

Next thing we're doing is putting the BLB, Evans, Torm, Rapha, Create threads all in private.
If you're putting a valuable thread in private, you're on thin ice as far as I'm concerned and the forum will have lost some of it's integrity as a result.
My 2p.

If we're starting to put threads in private because said company was useless and is now good etc. etc. it's actually a credit to the forum and the company for turning their business around and listening to their customer base?

Next thing we're doing is putting the BLB, Evans, Torm, Rapha, Create threads all in private.
If you're putting a valuable thread in private, you're on thin ice as far as I'm concerned and the forum will have lost some of it's integrity as a result.
My 2p.

There's another way of looking at this.... (was lurking again and couldn't resist popping out again) if all these threads WERE in private, then aren't we creating value for people signing, up joining, and hence being able to read the pvt's and contribute, rather than just lurk/or-come-via-google, and not being full members and not contributing...

My 2p, though I spent my 2p earlier, so it might another 2p.... oh I don't know, 2p, or not 2p, that is the question.....

Nice post Jaw.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread55281.html

Merge into.....?

http://www.lfgss.com/thread10329.html

and another
https://www.lfgss.com/thread55385.html#post1789077

Merge and keep public. It didn't take long for his reputation to be destroyed in Google terms, and it won't take long to build up if he actually starts selling quality product at sensible prices. Nobody here forced him to be a clueless chancer, he did it all by himself, and I've seen no evidence of a change in either his abilities as a business man or his competence as a bike builder. Other companies have recovered from worse reputational damage without any special favours from their critics.

That's why I'm split.

I won't give any company the ability to stop the discussion. That's not even a consideration, and was what last weeks furore was based on.

But I do want to balance that with the community showing that we are forgiving enough to encourage businesses to change their behaviour.

It's the latter that's harder. The first post of a thread is the most damaging and the one that's likely to be found by Google. I won't edit it at all, nor delete it, but if the business actually have changed their practises to address issues (I haven't verified this) then how do we acknowledge this and encourage that improvement? There's little incentive for a company to better themselves if it is unable to have that reflected in their online record.

Merge and move.......because I also believe companies (and some people) deserve a chance of redeeming themselves. I think Foffa has moved on from the past mistakes. High prices aren't criminal, especially if the customers are happy with their purchases. Deserves his chance to build his business, in ridiculously tough times.

If someone has been harshly treated and has done everything to turn this around, only to find that when they have done good, that past comments seriously hinder their business......I'd want at least to start with a clean slate.

People who have always worked for other people, and will always do so, have a very different view of business life to those that have actually experienced it, or understand it. That is very clear.

All I think is, it's all well and good saying that you have changed. Is it not worth keeping the record public, even for a month, just to see if things have changed. There are enough people with their fingers on the pulse on this forum to identify this, and yes I understand these are hard times, but I believe that a company moving in a positive direction will be accredited for it on the forum. I don't think a company should necessarily be penalised eternally for their previous work, but feel they should at least demonstrate that they are moving in a new direction, rather than just stating it, before helpful measures like this are taken.

Merge and keep public. It didn't take long for his reputation to be destroyed in Google terms, and it won't take long to build up if he actually starts selling quality product at sensible prices. Nobody here forced him to be a clueless chancer, he did it all by himself, and I've seen no evidence of a change in either his abilities as a business man or his competence as a bike builder. Other companies have recovered from worse reputational damage without any special favours from their critics.

I have to agree.

There is now only 1 Foffa Bikes thread:
http://www.lfgss.com/thread35474.html

It is not edited or moderated in any way, and represents all debate surrounding Foffa. It is a simple merging of the existing threads surrounding Foffa.

As is the consensus view, it will remain public.

I hope that this means that if the community thinks that they've done a good thing and have changed that people voice that to counter the older criticisms in the thread (thus providing an incentive to companies who listen to the community and do change to continue to do so).

Can I just say that reading this thread and all it's politics makes me a little less happy about the forum than I was ... maybe we should be coding up a filter app that only pulls in stuff that is socially relevant ... a bit like subscriptions, but with friends stuff somehow considered ... all that bitching and me me me seems so inane, I wish I wouldn't have read it.

Also, David, I feel for you. This must all give you a big headache sometimes.

Not really. It's pretty quiet recently.

Maybe ending the MSc has helped reduce the headache.

Quiet.....like a quiet beach, with your favourite person, on a hot cloudless day......with no hawking vendors to disturb the unscripted bout of procreation frenzy. It's really is much nicer here now. Same people, but a nicer vibe.

Smells abit, though.

That would be the rum-laced pina colada.

Not really. It's pretty quiet recently.

Maybe ending the MSc has helped reduce the headache.

David now you have loads of time on your hands again,
how about a 2010 LFGSS Forum Awards?

I was going to start a thread about this but didnt know the best way to do it.

As its LFGSS it would be tongue right in cheek,

some categories could be
"Most spectacular crash and burn award"
"General all round hero and rock amongst men award"
"Most erudite and wise award"
"Sickest sense of humour award"
"Best stupid comments writer award"

and so on, someone who knows how to push buttons on a computer would be able to do the polling etc. The prizes could be virtual, e.g a giant onscreen photo of a turkey for the crash and burn winner, thus saving money. Or real Im sure Tynan would donate a pair of socks or something.

just a thought.

That would be the rum-laced pina colada.

Today children, we shall be learning about the 1980's.

It's getting close... but we should.

What happened last time was that we had one thread that ran for a few weeks to build the list of categories and nominations, and then those were split into separate threads with actual polls for the voting.

Today children, we shall be learning about the 1980's.

There are no skyscrapers in Grenada, mainly because its too small an island, but mostly because of the rum and the laidback lifestyles. Good thing too. It's not about the 1980s but the attitudes of not giving a toss, and just enjoying sunny days. You have Tea, and I mix rum into any cold drink.

It's a fair trade.

For those desperate, and can't make Grenada, there's always that bit of sand near the Coin Street development on the Sarf Bank, enough room for sandcastles when the tide's out. Just a fought.

Quiet.....like a quiet beach, with your favourite person, on a hot cloudless day......with no hawking vendors to disturb the unscripted bout of procreation frenzy. It's really is much nicer here now. Same people, but a nicer vibe.

That would be the rum-laced pina colada.

Today children, we shall be learning about the 1980's.

Those were the days...

Bigger than the Beatles........apparently.