Cycling Fitness / Training Advice

Fair enough. Training volume then.

Consistency trumps all really.
You need to overload the body to force it to adapt. If you rest every other day, you're not nessecerelly overloading to cause a stimulus to adapt too, or the optimum stimulus.

AFAICT…The stimulus, recovery, adaptation cycles are at different scales. One of them is daily with sleep as the recovery portion. So if one of those cycles has no stimulus, but the next one has double, it’s a different way of absorbing what might be the same total TSS. You missed one cycle and double the load on the next.

You’re tricking the body into becoming fitter by providing a stimulus that makes it want to adapt to a new status quo, so that it feels safe. 6 training days in 7 is a different status quo to 3/7, even if the training days are bigger.

10k van der poel’s 5/7 with two consecutive days off got a lot of people talking as it’s very unusual at that level to take consecutive days of rest, but his load was insane. Also, he did that for mental health rather than optimal adaptation, which should be taken into account. If you can’t motivate yourself to train 6/7 then don’t beat yourself up.

I find Fast Talk podcast is the great source of information on this type of thing.

Thanks - that mostly answers my question.

If you can’t motivate yourself to train 6/7 then don’t beat yourself up

No danger of that. I’ve been there and done lots of back to back 1000 TSS weeks riding myself into a black hole and ended up hating the bike.

With sessions like 30/30 or 40/20 x10x3 does anyone do these outside? I always struggle to find roads where I don’t end up going downhill, or in traffic etc. Peril of living somewhere hilly I guess.
Tried doing them on Mtb on short uphill, turn around, repeat but my rest always ends up too long.
Do I just have to suck it up and get a turbo?

Tricky without a turbo, unless as you say you have good long sections of uninterrupted flat or a 15 min climb at hand.

Turbo also has the advantage of being able to stick it in ERG and just ride

I'd just do something else, why do them?
Or find a long hill.

Hah well I did wonder that too! If I mainly ride 10 min hills doing 30 sec sprints isn’t helping my immediate issues!
It’s also not ideal because I’m good at short sprints, I used to be a kilo and team sprint rider, but I’m rubbish at long climbs etc!
Food for thought thanks

If the primary purpose of the session is to work a particular energy system and make a physiological improvement then I always do intervals on the turbo for the consistency. This applies to most of the season.

However as I get closer to races (lol I don’t race anymore 😭) my focus will change from improving my engine to developing race specific skills (eg holding a desired power while in the tt position on real world terrain). To work on these skills I begin to do some interval sessions on the road, but since the focus isn’t solely on the physiological gainz I’m not so worried if I get stuck at a junction or caught in traffic.

I posted this on the running thread but have been pointed to here....

Over the past couple of years I have built up some decent running fitness but have had little to no time on the bike. I have a hilly multi day ride (2000m,140km/day 3 days) planned in for early September. I have about 2 x 1hrs and 1x 2hrs a week where I can train. How best to spend my time...? Bearing in mind I've never actually "trained" before when it comes to a bike...

It's not a race, but I also don't want my legs torn off and want to enjoy the evenings and getting back in the saddle.

I live nr hills and have a turbo, but would rather be outside.

Any advice welcome. Ta

How early September have you got 6 weeks? How are your 3 days spaced? Evenly or any B2B days? What was your last months running training like longest run and intensity of any efforts? I can write up a sensible sample plan for you to compare with any others

Your base fitness will get you through. I'd focus on doing tempo type bike sessions, so not super high intensity but do 20-30 minute intervals at tempo, so approx 30-35 bpm below your max heart rate, and do 2 or 3 per session with ten minutes easy in between. They work well to build endurance, which is what you probably need to focus on.

I’ve probably got a month of Trainer Road trial you could have, if I can find the code

That's very kind of you.

Thats very kind, thank you. Normally 2x midweek sessions with a day or 2 between then the 2hr window is a weekend with a day or 2 after. No B2B. Had a race mid June (26km 680m 2hr25 avg HR91% 171bpm so was training for that, and have another (10miler) next Sunday. Typically 40km a week with about 800m elevation. Efforts range from hill sprints 10x 1m on 1min off at 95% mhr to 3 x 15min at 85-90% mhr over rolling terrain.

This sounds good and doable outside locally as can tempo up hills then cruise along/down before finding another hill. Ta

Looks like a good base and your used to the feel and recovering from a bit of intensity. I'll post a couple of variations on a CTS time crunched endurance block later today or tomorrow.

Amazing, CTS...?

Sorry CTS is Charmichael training systems. It'll likely be a newer trimmed down Dylan Johnson plan possibly an older Hunter Allen plan so nothing too controversial

Here's a tempo based 6 week plan with some harder efforts to help you on the hills. If you don't have 6 weeks start at week 2 as there's a mini taper at the end so your fresh for your ride but no easy week inbetween as its such a short and relatively easy block of training.
Week 1
Workout 1 = 1hr with 3 x 10 min z3 5 min z2 inbetween
Workout 2 = 1hr with 2 x 20 high z2/low z3 5 min easy inbetween
Workout 3 = 2hr hilly ride
Week 2
Workout 1 = 1hr with 3 x 12 min z3
4 min z2 recoveries
Workout 2 = 1hr with 2 x 20 high z2/low z3 5 min easy recoveries
Workout 3 = 2 hr hilly ride
Week 3
Workout 1 = 1 hr 2 x 20 min z3 5 min easy inbetween
Workout 2 = 1 hr with 3 x 10 z3 5 min z2 recoveries
Workout 3 = 2 hr z2 with 5x3 low z5 on a hill if possible 3 min easy spinning recoveries
Week 4
Workout 1 = 1hr 3 x 10 min over unders
2 min high z4/low z5 alt 3 min high z4/low z3 with 5 min z2 recoveries
Workout 2 = 1hr with 3 x 10 z3 and 5 mins z2 recoveries
Workout 3 = 2hr ride with 6x3 min low z5 or hills 3 min easy spinning recoveries
Week 5
Workout 1 = 1hr with 4x9 min over unders
As 1 min high z4/low z5 and 2 min high z2/low z3 and 4 min easy spin recoveries
Workout 2 = 1hr with 2x20 min z3 with 5 min z2 recoveries
Workout 3 = 2hr ride with 7 x 3 min
Low Z5/hills with 3 min easy spinning recoveries
Week 6 mini taper
Workout 1 = 45min- 1 hr z2 with
1 x 12min 40/20s blocks as 40s goosing it and 20s easy spinning then 5 min z2 and 1 x 6 min 40/20 efforts
Workout 2 = 45min - 1hr with 4 x 3 min
Fast pedaling 10-15% higher than your usual cadence but in an easy gear
3 min z2 inbetween intervals
Workout 3= smash your ride and surprise your mates with your new bike fitness 💪
As an alternative workout for your 2 hr weekend rides on weeks 3/4/5 if you want and easier workout you could do those as 2hr with z3 tempo finishes adding 20 min to finish week 3-30 min week 4-35minutes on week 5
Or as an alternative to the hills/z5 efforts on weeks 3/4/5 again you could insert a block of 3 x 10 min as 1 min hard 1 min easy with 5 min recoveries on week 3 then 2 x 15 min blocks with 8 min recoveries on week 4 and 1 x 30
Min block on week 5.
I'm sure you know your hr zones from your running training but your riding zones will probably be about 5 bpm lower than when your running.
This should be a decent plan as it fits your schedule has plenty of bang for your buck tempo on your limited time available and the harder efforts will help you on the hills whilst being at an intensity familiar to you from your running intervals so shouldn't feel you too hard or be too tough to recover from.

Wow. This is amazing. I'm a touch hungover rn. But will have a proper read thru later!! Thank you.

I thought they stopped those?

How best to spend my time...?

Riding.

Up and down hills.

Every spare second you have. Do some of it hard enough that you want to stop.

Accept no substitute.

Are you carrying gear? Ride with that attached.

Turbo training might get you some extra fitness but if you've done fuck all riding, you're better off getting more comfortable descending in all weathers with a bike setup matching your ride setup. If it's not a race then you don't even need fitness. But if you crash because you're a gumby on the descents, your ride will be a lot slower than if you'd done no training :)

tl;dr

That may be why I can’t find them anywhere