Why are people so down on the police?

I like the po po. I understand that some of them are bad though. And that experiences with those wrong-uns taint the rep of the po po for lots of people. Its the same with teenagers. They're not all workshy louts beating the hell out of everyone. Some are though. I am soooo chilled out right now. x

i'm staying out of this thread.

Thats cool too.

Opinionated generalisations are the trademark of someone who doesn't have the intelligence or knowledge to construct a convincing argument that will stand up to cross examination. You are now typecasting yourself into the role of 'provocateur' in order to avoid the fact that the few examples you gave really didn't amount to much, and that your 'argument' as a whole amounts to nothing more than sermonising.

You really shouldn't allow yourself to be so sanctimonious.

Not at all, the examples I gave all demonstrate my point and there are plenty of others on the forum should you care to look for them. And I'm not the only person on this thread who believes this to be the case. Of course there was an element of provocation to my opening post but that's plain to see. As for being sanctimonious - so what? You're behaving no differently. Besides, you've got 'troll' written all over you, have only just gotten over your fit of potty-mouth, and haven't added anything of real relevance to the subject.

and so what? what is your problem with this? are you saying they should be accepting the police with open arms, welcoming them for a stop and search at every opportunity, pointing out their fellow brakless riders, and celebrating their mediocre successes with an over-enthusiastic "clappity clappity"?

fixed gear is cool, so what? it's getting some people into cycling.

distrust of the police is cool, and? it's getting some people to think about how they relate to their state.

So you agree with me then. No I'm not saying we should give the police a kiss and a cuddle. But I am saying that if their efforts to help cyclists were received more positively then this would probably nurture better relations between the police and cyclists generally. There is a definite swing now towards really tackling bike thieves and surely this can only be a good thing.

See how easy it is to attack my thoughts? Of course they fuck up, they just don't fuck up all the time and when they do get it right they get little to no support certainly from the majority.

Lee_Wood you should UTFS but I'll be nice and give you some examples:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/jun/30/police-thefts-bait-bikes

http://www.lfgss.com/post1500436-1138.html

http://www.lfgss.com/thread43202.html

Is that OK for you?

? Do you tip someone else's waiter for giving them adequate service? Say thanks to a bin-man for taking out your neighbours bins? Or are you saying that every time I see a cop doing his job and pulling folk over I should suck his cock/lick her minge in a frenzy of gratitude?

I've never been arrested, pulled over for RLJing or anything because I don't do it. I have been stopped and searched on the most bullshit premises ever, and dealt with rude, arrogant po-po too. Some of my friends have had positively harrowing experiences with police where they have been racially insulted or threatened. I don't think that is reflective of all cops however, and am fully aware it must be a difficult, harrowing job, even if it is one they choose to do.

If I ever require their services and feel they have been helpful, of course I'd thank them, just as I would thank a waiter or a doctor or any other human being. What Van Uden is suggesting from the lofty heights of his soap-box is that we are all mindless cretins who daily scoff at the police because we want to be cool, and that we ignore positive reports of them. Not so. I've read plenty of folk acknowledge good cops on here. Just so happens some people possess the capacity for reason...

As someone else made a waiter comparison before me...

This is basically you saying if we went to a restaurant where waiters often drop plates and fuck up orders we should applaud them whenever they manage to put the correct meal on the table without dropping it.

Doing bad job deserves criticism, doing good job deserves praise. Doing an average job doesn't deserve anything, as that is what is expected. I think you can find in the examples that you provided that in the cases when the police do a good job, praise is given.

Also, anyone who's ever been on Critical Mass (or any other mass gathering or demonstration) knows what utter dicks they can be about that sort of thing. The excellent Bruce Schneier would probably lump this in with the "War On The Unusual" he's been arguing against in a security context ever since the 9/11 knees started jerking.

VanUden, I feel your thoughts have been justifiably SHOT DOWN. Nice thread start though, people are making a lot of sense

PS I think your post was pretty spot on, Gregorio.

Van Uden, like me, is a well spoken middle aged white male. Maybe your general opinions of police benevolence are a little less rosy...

In defence of Van Uden's OP, it doesn't hurt to make a noise when they do get things right, I applaud that sentiment, however hard I find that to admit. I have always mistrusted the Police. And I will continue to do so.

Of the three examples you gave from the forum - one can't be easily viewed by many, one is in a thread for inconsequential EPIC WINS and the third had a whole page of positive commentary PLUS the followup thread to that one was nearly two pages long full of positive commentary. Consequently, I disagree that posts about police doing a good job get largely ignored on this forum. The difference is that they don't spark up a debate that rages on for 4 pages

21 posts, and it was started yesterday - but that is nitpicking

But surely that is to be expected? After all, police, who's duty is the protection of our civil liberties and rights, should not fuck up - their fuck ups results in more than just someone suffering a little injustice or an unfair beating but in the undermining of a system which is meant to keep both our rights and ourselves safe.

I disagree that stating dissatisfaction at police fuck ups (which in my opinion happen way too often) is childish or counter-productive in the slightest - the ways in which we can genuinely complain against police who do a poor job are few and far between, therefore we take advantage of any means available including ranting on the internet.

I agree that when police do a good job - an above average job - they deserve commendation. It just so happens that the standards of what constitutes a good job in public perception are set quite high; or better yet, they have not fallen together with the falling standards of what an 'average job' is.

Finally, it is hardly a surprise that good performance is often (and sometimes only) applauded by those who benefit them - especially when most people are still affected by poor service. When your waiter fucks up your service but the table across from you gets the best waiter in the world you don't stand up and write a review about how great the waiters were in Restaurant Chez Pig.

I realy shoudn't get dragged in to this...

Can you highight where I have concentrated on the negative on the subject matter. I don't think I have.

I have concentrated on the negatives of your approach though and to be honest accusing me of trading personal insults is a litte rich. 1 because well I haven't, 2 because, your opening posts suggests that people hold opinions based on nothing more than a desire to be cool and that they are therefore immature is hardly the most respectful of opening shots and makes you complaining about insults just a touch hypocritical in my opinon, 3 because your reply when I asked you too back up your viewpoint was undeniably condescending and franky why should I research evidence to back up your viewpoint, and 4 because based on this thread and the fact that your whole argument seems to be "I'm right, you're wrong" I don;t think that sugggesting that you aren't one of lifes great thinkers is entirely unreasonable.

But you are making ad hominem statements, masked as fact.

You dismiss criticism of the police as simply "trying to be cool". This attacks the person, not the argument.

Insults are just insults, and don't get in the way of debate, they just add colour.

Not at all, the examples I gave all demonstrate my point and there are plenty of others on the forum should you care to look for them. And I'm not the only person on this thread who believes this to be the case. Of course there was an element of provocation to my opening post but that's plain to see. As for being sanctimonious - so what? You're behaving no differently. Besides, you've got 'troll' written all over you, have only just gotten over your fit of potty-mouth, and haven't added anything of real relevance to the subject.

Resent the troll accusation. Pointing out the gaping flaws in your argument isn't being a troll- I contributed to the argument as many others have, and have been recognised by others as such. Your 3 threads 'proving' your point out of how many thousand on here have been addressed by other posters, you didn't respond. As for me being sanctimonious-look the meaning up. I'm not self righteously decrying the unknown masses on this forum apparently beying for police blood but supporting the fact that most people on here are reasonable individuals who aren't grandstanding like you are. Now, try re-reading the posts and actually getting to grips with the concept that making massive generalisations under the now adopted pretext of 'provocation' doesn't constitute much of an argument.

And potty mouth? STFU, pizzle starved twunt.

I have to test both Police and my patience soon.

They have cordoned off Bishopsgate, Wormwood St, Bevis Marks and prob more. Looks like an issue with the new Heron tower.

Problem is, my bike is locked up in the cordon zone. I have been here at work for 12 hours and I wanna go home :-(

distrust of the police is cool, and? it's getting some people to think about how they relate to their state.

Not really, no. Doing something because it is 'cool' is the direct opposite of thinking.
It's hard to believe that VU's assertion that dislike of the police is a received opinion held uncritically by many people should be controversial. It's bleeding obvious that a default "fuck the police" attitude is pretty common.
There are many rubbish coppers and there are many rubbish policies forced on the police by politicians. The same applies to the NHS, the army and the DSS. And the situation with Evans is much the same.
Personally my own view is that as an institution the police service is often lamentable. But that doesn't mean I distrust every copper. And I certainly don't whine if I get caught RLJing.
I wouldn't be a police officer for all the tea in LMNH. Imagine a job where all day every day you are seeing people at their worst, being lied to, insulted, mistrusted and vilified. Again much like the situation at Evans.

Resent the troll accusation. Pointing out the gaping flaws in your argument isn't being a troll- I contributed to the argument as many others have, and have been recognised by others as such. Your 3 threads 'proving' your point out of how many thousand on here have been addressed by other posters, you didn't respond. As for me being sanctimonious-look the meaning up. I'm not self righteously decrying the unknown masses on this forum apparently beying for police blood but supporting the fact that most people on here are reasonable individuals who aren't grandstanding like you are. Now, try re-reading the posts and actually getting to grips with the concept that making massive generalisations under the now adopted pretext of 'provocation' doesn't constitute much of an argument.

And potty mouth? STFU, pizzle starved twunt.

You lost me in terms of having a sensible discussion when near the very start of your response you said:

"Or are you saying that every time I see a cop doing his job and pulling folk over I should suck his cock/lick her minge in a frenzy of gratitude?"

Hardly surprising I couldn't take you seriously after that really is it?

Good to see you've resorted back to form and have started the profanity again. It never fails to amaze me how 'tough' some people are on the interwebz, usually those that have the most to prove.

I love reading the title of this thread to myself in the voice of Neil from The Young Ones.

Not really, no. Doing something because it is 'cool' is the direct opposite of thinking.

of course i didn't mean that all those who have that opinion will go on to further things, just in the way that many will stop riding bikes when fixed gear is not cool, but that some will go on to critical thinking, just as the way some will go into track racing, for example.

It's hard to believe that VU's assertion that dislike of the police is a received opinion held uncritically by many people should be controversial. It's bleeding obvious that a default "fuck the police" attitude is pretty common.

but i haven't denied this have i? i'm just asking why it is something to be critical of, many people hold "political" views because they are cool, or because they were their parents', etc. but whats the problem with this?

I wouldn't be a police officer for all the tea in LMNH. Imagine a job where all day every day you are seeing people at their worst, being lied to, insulted, mistrusted and vilified.

yeah, but there are lots of jobs like this, a&e doctor/nurse, bouncer, lawyer, call centre...

and it would have to be coffee.

but i haven't denied this have i?

That was in a new paragraph; not everything is about you and your rabidly anti-semitic views. You may think it's fun to parade around Stamford Hill wearing a t-shirt with a picture of a burning synagogue on it but I don't.
Your claims that the police are controlled by a group of "internatinel Zionists" (sic) is as absurd as it is mis-spelled. Furthermore, Blair Peach was not an Arab; check your facts Velo Hitler.
We all know that you have had a hard time adjusting to normal life since your release and I think it is to this forum's great credit that you have largely been accepted and tolerated for so long. Your hate-thoughts and hate-posts and your hate-Gifs have been mostly over looked. However there is a limit. And stating that the G20 police officers were "Rabbis in body armour" is it.
You can cry 'censorship' all you like but remember this; this is LFGSS. It's not the Jews that are our enemy, it's nodders and hipsters and anyone who's build we don't like. I hope from now on you will remember that.

it's nodders and hipsters and anyone who's build we don't like. I hope from now on you will remember that.

pedestrians too. especially the ones on Regents St.

+1

I got an indian takeaway off a CID officer tonight who was working in his families business on his night off.

He was a lovely chap but then I realised he had short changed me by a quid, I don't know what to think now to be honest.

. You may think it's fun to parade around Stamford Hill wearing a t-shirt with a picture of a burning synagogue on it but I don't.
.

Please tell me thats a joke?!

Please tell me thats a joke?!

Sadly not. And the really tragic element is that VH was only wearing a t-shirt; nothing down below. It was in all the papers. I think there was even a Tweet about it from Stephen Fry.

this video is sooo dated and childish

I'm assuming you weren't a black man in Los Angeles in the 80's or 90's. Neither was I but I was in L.A. at the time and the police were less than helpful, to be polite.

You weren't? Oh.

I got an indian takeaway off a CID officer tonight who was working in his families business on his night off.

He was a lovely chap but then I realised he had short changed me by a quid, I don't know what to think now to be honest.

it's only a quid mate, we all make mistakes...

No, it's theft, report him.

I agree, the police here actually do their job (sure they could do it better, but that goes for all of us), makes a welcome change from the bastards we used to have.

Ahhh Shut up Mick! I love you.

Sadly not. And the really tragic element is that VH was only wearing a t-shirt; nothing down below. It was in all the papers. I think there was even a Tweet about it from Stephen Fry.

I believed you until the Stephen Fry bit, everyone knows he only tweets about his fucking IQ/ipad/iphone