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bullshitsu
the ancient art of physical obfuscation
seriously i cant see many of us ever being able to take on multiple opponents
i got mugged a couple of years ago by 3 youths in Westbourne Park
they battered me about the face and head, stole my bag and were intent on giving me a kicking
the saving grace of being nationally ranked in the top 30 fencers in the country at the time was that when i saw an opening I was fit enoough to do a runner and they could not keep up
Proof in the pudding.
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West London.. well ghetto innit.
Maybe what you meant?
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Do you want to train for pleasure or to be 'safe in the street'? If for the former just choose something you like to do with a bunch of people you fit in with (a major point in enjoying your training in my experience). If you can kick some ass at the end it's an unintended added benefit.
If you want to be 'safe on the street' --any street, fighting training is just plain not enough nor the starting point. You would need specific and realistic training to be able to understand what's going on and what you need to do to get what you want -- fighting is likely to be the option when everything else fails, not option 1. And btw, when I say 'get what you want', I mean something as mundane as going from point A to B without being harassed by some youth.
Learning martial arts for safety in the street is like learning how to shoot a rifle then going off to Afghanistan thinking you know all that soldiering is about. You'd die within a week, because staying alive in a combat zone involves many more skills than just shooting straight.
Bottom line, MA teach you how to fight in an environment where there are rules and people honor them. In addition it only teaches you how to fight according a set of preordained limitations (i.e. no knives). It might give you more confidence --or not. If you train with the goals of having some fun and maybe making some good solid friends you will not be disappointed.
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Proof in the pudding.
or fencing is for fucking joylords who want to cunt around pretending to be zorro at the weekends
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Do you want to train for pleasure etc.
+1
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I did Wado Ryu karate for 12 years (got my 1st black belt and everything) - it's a synergy of the punching/kicking moves of more trad styles of karate (e.g. Shotokan - don't do it, it's shite) and the grappling, holds etc of Jiujitsu. The good thing about Wado Ryu is that it's also designed for scrawny little toerags who can move fast and have good balance but very little strength like myself, who otherwise would have no chance in another martial art that is more based on strength or weight.
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Capoeira? Tai Chi? What the fuck are you guys talking about???
If someone comes up to me on the street and tries to bust some Tai Chi on my ass, I'm going to have time to rip off a fence picket and turn them into liquid before they have even had a chance to wind up their first punch.
Nope, Tai Chi is a proven martial art in Lei Tai and San Shou competitions, and some people that train it right are well hard.
You confuse the form with applications with fighting.Maybe this push hands video gives you a better idea of applications:
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I did ju-Jitsu for years, it was crap and taught by fat blokes. The Brazilian Ju-Jitsu might be worth a look.
I've done a few other martial arts since then, some obscure stuff, Kali Silat (indonesian stick fighting), Muay Thai (all through uni, gave up after a niggling knee injury), but the only stuff I ever used was Tai Chi Chu'an. lol Irony. That said, without the conditioning of Muay Thai I doubt it would jhave been effective. Historically, fighters would tend to start with hard techniques, and transition to soft techniques as they got older and less able to rely on brute strength. Without the basics, soft styles are unlikely to be useful.
I'm completely out of condition and a total wuss, incidentally.
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Capoeira? Tai Chi? What the fuck are you guys talking about???
If someone comes up to me on the street and tries to bust some Tai Chi on my ass, I'm going to have time to rip off a fence picket and turn them into liquid before they have even had a chance to wind up their first punch.
Dude, you PRACTICE slowly.
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You have a good point about the boxing, but imo it's a pretty aggresive martial art.
Getting into a fist fight can go any which way, and people can get seriously hurt.
What I want is to be able to take someones attack do some fresh moves and end up with them on their knees yelping with me holding their little finger behind their head, telling them to calm down... or something along those lines.
Not going to happen. What will happen is you'll get jumped by a bunch of youths and pulped or someone with a knife. Give them your wallet and run like fuck. If you don't have the instinct it's almost entirely certain you never will. If you still want to cultivate that, you need to pick a martial art where you get hit a lot.
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I guy I work with says "I don't care how hard you are you're not harder than a base ball bat", which sums it up quite nicely.
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If your not someone genetically gifted with a big strong punch, lots of reach, good chin, can jump around a lot & kick really high then I consider this a very good option.
The beauty of it is, that with wing chun you get to do very physical sparring/chi sao immediately. Thats the bread and butter of learning it. Pretty damn close to real life.
Would it be possible to go train bareknuckle boxing or muay thai realistically without getting seriously fucked up?
Do you really think you are physically capable of doing that type of fighting?
Wing Chun seems a very efficient means for striking & trapping blows without doing massive exuberant swinging of arms and legs which require large amounts of born-athleticism to be effective. Best thing is that it will probably be as effective when you are 80 years old.
Seems to be a very good base, just like Bruce lee pointed out, there are obviously limitations "use what is useful ...etc" perhaps throw some other stuff on top to be well rounded? Id go for some sort of wrestling, because again it lets you train in a full contact kind of way and develops practical strength merely by practicing. You could probably get decent at it just by practicing with a friend too.
While I somewhat agree about Chi Sau being a sparring like exercise that's the core of the system, I don't agree Chi Sau has the intensity of proper sparring.
No one is going to Chi Sau you in a combat situation.
And while you do Chi Sau you have to pull the punches, because otherwise you fuck your partner up, meaning that the intensity is dropped to something safe.Further, people that Chi Sau you are using Wing Chun techniques, meaning that you rarely have to defend takedowns and big throwing punches of someone who knows how that shit works, with proper intensity.
I found this out the hard way by going to the Tai Chi guys for sparring, and basically being caught out by double leg take downs and big long punches that I wasn't used to. A proper wake up call, felt a bit dizzy after a couple of those.
I don't think you need to do bare knuckle fighting do good, useful sparring. Nothing wrong with gloves IMO.
Just out of interest: Do you still train Wing Chun? Mind sharing where / what lineage? I train in Finsbury park with the guys from Nino Bernardo.
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I did Wado Ryu karate for 12 years (got my 1st black belt and everything) - it's a synergy of the punching/kicking moves of more trad styles of karate (e.g. Shotokan - don't do it, it's shite) and the grappling, holds etc of Jiujitsu. The good thing about Wado Ryu is that it's also designed for scrawny little toerags who can move fast and have good balance but very little strength like myself, who otherwise would have no chance in another martial art that is more based on strength or weight.
I think the one clear thing is that no one seems to agree:)
I did Shotokan - didn't liek it either, did Wado Ryu didin't liek that too much either but that's probably because I started by doing Gendo Kai which I loved - after that all other styles didn't work simply because they weren't the one I began with. That and my sensei was so funny - it was like doing stand up comedy fighting.
No idea if they do it down here but when I did it it was a karate base with loads of other bits thrown in and the 'less useful' bits thrown out. Very focused on 'real life' application - with locks, holds and those things that hurt your opponent the most.
I never had to use it but felt confident that if somethign did happen I'd at least be able to react (then leg it). i think the key thing in preparing you for a 'street situation' is being able to deal with being hit. first time it happens it's a surprise and it bloody hurts. Getting over the shock of that is important .
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Ive only been to a couple sessions, decided it was too far & awkward to get to for me to be able to train regularly.
It was at this place: http://www.midlandswingchun.com/
The training/sparring was aggressive and fast even though I was just joining in for a taster. The "sifu" would test one of the students every so often, hitting them fairly hard and fast. One of the specific things that was emphasised in the tuition of techniques was jus how exactly they would counter strong boxing type blows. I saw a training session of some of the more experienced students too, and they where pretty much going all out in in terms of speed & strength. Including kicking.
An escrima/arnis tutor also shares the same facility, him and some of his students also fight against the whing chun students. With weapons too. It all looked pretty awesome to me.
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Certainly agree with the sentements about capoeira
YouTube- Capoeira Fail
But nobody would be busting any Tai Chi on you.
The fighting application of this kung fu style is
to yield under force neutralising the attacker's
energy, then counterattack using an unyielding
force of great power & speed. -
From a purely theoretical point of view, I did ages ago, have a look into varying martial arts and their respective effectiveness. I decided that if one were to learn Aikido AND Muay Thai, the knowledge of a defense-based art, mixed with possibly the best close range attacking style, seemed a winning combo.
That said, buy or rent the film IP MAN, and learn the effectiveness of mastering a simple style.
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I've done Tae Kwon Do, and while I've really enjoyed the sporting aspect of it, I wouldn't say it was particularly practical as a form of self defence until you've had several years experience. I would recommend Muay Thai if you wanted a more practical striking martial art and Brazilian Ju Jitsu for ground work.
Remember that martial arts aren't all about self defence; you'll have to learn forms and patterns, competition sparring etc. If it's just self defence you want, you may be better off with a designated self defence course?
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I think the one clear thing is that no one seems to agree:)
i think the key thing in preparing you for a 'street situation' is being able to deal with being hit. first time it happens it's a surprise and it bloody hurts. Getting over the shock of that is important .That is the number one point, watching high graded people go in to a sparring competition for the first time and see their technique go to pot when someone is not standing still for them was quite funny.
I think Martial Arts effectiveness varies from person to person, some styles suit different people.
I did Judo and Ju-Jitsu for a few years, I picked Ju-Jitsu because it was the Martial Art style of Judo and found Wrist locks and pressure points pretty useful learning where to hit for best effect, the full on training of the Judo was great for getting used to being knocked about and fitness.Mind you our instructor always said RLF was the best style [Run Like Fuck]
Having friends in to other styles I reckon Wing-chung and Boxing are pretty effective.
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Certainly agree with the sentements about capoeira
YouTube- Capoeira Fail
That's from a film. I know a few dudes who do capoeria as a hobby and I'd put 'em against 99% of people who'd start a ruck in the streets, mostly because they're so fit as a result of it.
Personally I've done a few martial arts and the only one which really had a decent application on the streets was that Israeli thing, Krav Maga. It's totally brutal and thuggish but it's simple to learn and sticks with you. You don't need to be hyperfit to use it either.
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Martial Arts advice
Posted by
@TM
bullshitsu
the ancient art of physical obfuscation
seriously i cant see many of us ever being able to take on multiple opponents
i got mugged a couple of years ago by 3 youths in Westbourne Park
they battered me about the face and head, stole my bag and were intent on giving me a kicking
the saving grace of being nationally ranked in the top 30 fencers in the country at the time was that when i saw an opening I was fit enoough to do a runner and they could not keep up