Cycling in car parks...where do we stand legally?

Do they (the City of London) have some kind of CSR type department? It's not very CSR or good from a healthy communities point of view to chuck you out.

You definitely need to get them on board. Security will just do what they're told, but the complaints have no official basis (do they?) so just seems like they're giving in straight away for a quiet life.

Is it worth talking to some local councillors?

I started reading about city of london a few weeks ago when I notcied Barbican housing had 'corporation of london' shield on the wall. It's bizarre. Without wanting to sound like a mental, it's something I'd like to investigate a bit more

The City of London Corporation is what the city has instead of a local council. It's a weird medieval hangover with lots of odd powers. Unlike normal councils, businesses get to vote in its elections as well as residents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Corporation

Sadly no longer. I used to be able to vote in two City wards as a partner in a firm who paid rates in those tow wards. Now I can vote in none. We pay rates but get no representation. Where is Paul Revere when you need him?

I started reading about city of london a few weeks ago when I notcied Barbican housing had 'corporation of london' shield on the wall. It's bizarre. Without wanting to sound like a mental, it's something I'd like to investigate a bit more

There a bucket of stuff available either from the City Corporation's website, from the Guildhall or from The Museum of London.

I agree, this stuff is all quite interesting

It's all quite bizarre, unrepresentative and archaic. And that's just Clive.

“The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.” I'm going to work on Alinsky principles until Friday.

Without Trixiedix I would have never learned to skid, never mind trackstand. I don't tend to go anymore because I've no ambition to learn any more tricks, and I'm still rubbish at trackstanding :-) Nevertheless I met some great people there and it would be a damn shame if it was ended.

A thought has occurred that because it has been going on for 2 years with no complaints it is now accepted custom or something and they can't stop it - I'm thinking of whatever it was that allowed Critical Mass to continue. Could that apply here?

A thought has occurred that because it has been going on for 2 years with no complaints it is now accepted custom or something and they can't stop it - I'm thinking of whatever it was that allowed Critical Mass to continue. Could that apply here?

Simple answer: no.

Hello,

Just got the email from Tash.

What a pain in the arse, I've missed the last two weeks, so didn't know anything about this. Here are some thoughts.

1) It's run by the corporation of London, which is a private company. We are trespassing and don't have a leg to stand on legally and I'm afraid any kind of ASBO rules etc dont apply. We're basically sneaking into someone's house and up until now they haven't minded. It's not worth using any of the ASB law argument in the email

2) Liability - as has been said, their main concern, once it's raised with the corporation, is probably much more that one of us will hurt ourselves and then sue them. It might be worth offering to sign some disclaimer or having a "use at your own risk" sign put up for the top floor. So that it is clear that we would not need to be covered by any public liability insurance. Alas I get the feeling that the neighbour complaint will just spur the corporation of london on to tighten up on this unauthorised activity.

3) neighbours - when we spoke to the guy incharge of the carpark before he said there was a particular neighbour who 'complains about everything' and "had described you lot as having a riot up here every tuesday'. Alas he didn't point out which one this was. The guy we spoke to seemed pretty even minded about us and was not fussed about us being there. Obviously the neighbour has now taken it higher.

4) it might be worth using the blog that we set up (alas has been abandoned) http://tuesdaynighttrix.blogspot.com/ in any conversation with the council, so that they get an idea of what it is we do. (I'll remove the picture of the boom box).

5) I'm totally willing to be a rep for the night in any conversation with the owners. Much as I am a dirty protester anarchist troublemaker, I'm also very good at talking to people in authority and calming them down (plenty of years of dealing with riot cops) and I can scrub up well and have years of experience at public speaking and attending council meetings.

6) invite them up, I think if they came and saw actually what happens, then it would help explain and calm things down. We could even drop some letters through the doors of the buildings surrounding the carpark with an email for people to respond to us with, and perhaps even a mobile number to call if it gets noisy.

7) ramps, I get the feeling the problem has been since we've moved from learning to trackstand through to dragging up crates and creating jumps. These are noisier, and look messier. A few times these haven't been cleared away, and this will have caused issues.

It's all quite bizarre, unrepresentative and archaic. And that's just Clive.

“The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.” I'm going to work on Alinsky principles until Friday.

The problem with the City is that very few people live there and they are frequently unrepresentative of the huge numbers who work there and whose businesses make the borough just about the richest in London and who depend upon the maintainence of infrastructure to allow their businesses to thrive.

Tash, I think the dispersal notice is for Tower Hamlets and the car park sounds like its in the City not Tower Hamlets . Are you dealing with the right people?

If you are in the City it will be the Corporation and the City of London police.

I used to work across the local authorities in that area and you require different tactics in working with the City ( ie the Corporation ) and Tower Hamlets.

Ok, just seen the post above and you have discovered about the Corporation.
Its a very officer led authority, but can have moments of benign paternalism.

Its possible you might get another venue if you play your cards right

wow, can't believe this has been happening. i've been on the roof quite a few times over the past 2 years and i have never heard any noise coming from the roof, excessive or otherwise. hope you guys get it sorted. btw phil what ever happened to the tnt blog?

What a shame. TrixieDix was a lovely night. Bristly is right--legally, there's no leg to stand on. The moment you escalate it upstairs (pun intended), it'll get less likely, in fact probably impossible, to continue it. To be honest, I always expected this to happen, and I think it's the way of such things not to last forever, but I really hope an agreement can be reached to carry on there, or at least to find a good alternative venue.

Well, at least the response was quick...

Natasher

Thank you for your email.

There are several reasons why the City cannot support your use of this space.

Firstly we have had complaints from local residents about bicycles racing up and down the ramps and the noise generated by your gatherings.

Secondly I have myself witnessed cyclists entering the car park and pulling stunts on the way up to the top floor, proceeding against the direction signs and moving at some speed. I have also seen them leaving at speed and against the direction signs. This causes us concerns that an accident is just waiting to happen.

Third if we allowed your events to take place and an accident occurred we leave ourselves exposed to claims under our insurance and investigation by the Health and Safety Executive.

Whilst I understand your desire to have a venue such as our car park which appears to you to be ideal I am afraid the City of London Corporation can not allow it to continue now that it has been brought to our attention.

I trust that you will understand our position.

Regards.

when the respondee uses highly emotive words like "stunts" rather than "skills", and "accident" rather than "youtube clip" you know the game's up. two years ain't bad.

shame 2nd birthday was coming up, a couple more weeks and we might have been able to go out with a bang rather than a whimper.

time to go underground motherfuckers..... er, so anyone know any good underground car parks?

...

Its possible you might get another venue if you play your cards right

Oh dear, not looking so good for this.

when the respondee uses highly emotive words like "stunts" rather than "skills", and "accident" rather than "youtube clip" you know the game's up. two years ain't bad. ...

Jajajaja, I lolzed at that 'jamas melad.

Good luck to the trixxers, hope you can find a decent spot to continue. Shame that your idea of people being not-too-lary hasn't been translated into them thinking the same.

Is it mad of me to suggest the BL basketball court? I mean, does it have to be a carpark?

sorry to hear that. you just know that h&S concerns (read, we don't want to get sued or get in trouble, it's more than my jobsworth) far outweighs any concerns about complaints from residents.

good luck finding somewhere else

I just saw the final posts on the thread. Arse.

I grew up in a village run by old men, for old men. Once you got to teenage years, you were fucked for anything decent to do. This is the same thing.

Report the naked dude to the cops, just out of spite? (assuming it was him who complained). Although you are allowed to be naked in your own property, I believe you still need to make sure you're not flaunting it to the world. A final "fuck you" from TrixieDix?
.

Sorry to hear that. Guess I will never learn the track stand then.

Third if we allowed your events to take place and an accident occurred we leave ourselves exposed to claims under our insurance and investigation by the Health and Safety Executive.

Yet somehow other councils manage to allow skate parks.

they are not a council, they are a private corporation.

Therefore they are scared stiff of being sued for public liability.

We've been doing lots of projects with the Space Hijackers about exactly this, and how an influx of private corporations running our cities means that all risk is taken out, and outsiders (such as homeless or in this case cycling hipsters) are pushed out of the way by security.

http://www.spacehijackers.org/html/projects/privatepublic/privatepublic.html

I'm afraid short of offering to sign waivers to say we won't sue, there's not much we can do, and they seem to be more afraid of us hitting cars anyway so I doubt there is anything we can do to make them budge.

we'll just have to find a new neighbour free spot and bribe any security again.

:-(

They are London local authority, albeit a feudal one.

Keep trying .....

Reading this whole thread is so sad, I'm getting pretty sick of anything even slightly 'on the edge' in London getting pushed out. Natasha, I'd try and re-engage with the Council and send an email back to them and ask them to re-engage: re-iterate the fact that you have always tried to keep noise to a minimum and be considerate to neighbours, that you offer a valuable service in that you are 'keeping kids off the streets', helping the space to be utlised and therefore keeping the prostitues and crack-heads away, that you have fostered good relationships with the security staff at the car park and that you are providing a great atmosphere for cyclists to learn cycling skills. State politely that you think they have got the wrong idea about what you do there ("accident waiting to happen") (As if cars speeding out of the car park aren't the same FFS!!) and encourage them to come down and see the event for themselves. Tell them that if they have specific concerns about noise, hours and the way in which you exit the car park that you are more than happy to sign up to a code of conduct of some sort....

Secondly, the Corporation must have some kind of arts and cutlute representative / employee. Get in touch with them as it is good to have someone who will understand you and be a positive voice within the corporation - likewise some of the council members.

Lastly, get in touch with the LCC; they have some kind of public liability insurance for all their events and if you can somehow demonstrate that one of you is 'the organiser' and an LCC member I think their insurance will cover your 'event'.

All is not lost, I had a similar situation with an event I organied a few years back and had a similar office-based reaction, but once I got the councillors and arts people on side the beurocrat was over-ruled and my event went ahead.

Keep trying, and don't rise to the bait of their somewhat misguided email tone!

Send a VERY short email to tony.halmos@cityoflondon.gov.uk

Tony Halmos is the Corporation's Director of Communications.... and a senior member of the CIPR profession in the UK, so he should take the importance of these things extra seriously.....

Say...

• you're very disappointed at the approach taken by the Corporation when it is trying to be so cycle friendly

• in the first instance could he look into this....

• draw his attention via a link to this thread, and the increasing influence LFGSS is having in London as he'll find surfing the site....

• and then could he suggest how this could be 'resolved'.... perhaps a meeting between leading-hipster-lights, and someone from the Planning or Policy unit.

• He should also be able to tell you who the local 'Alderman' is for that site, and their email addresses (if you can't find it from the CoL web site)

• Then email the local 'Alderman' - send him a copy of your correspondence with Tony Halmos.

Alderman are the most senior the local community officials. From these across the City comes the Lord Mayor of the City of London.

The CoL is a local authority, but it is a bit special. As citizens you/we have every right to engage with those who are elected in the area to serve not just those who live their, but also those that pass through.

Good luck, and of course, post their replies on here.

If you don't get a reply from Mr Halmos with 48 hours, then post that here too....