General questions/observations/discussion

+2 that makes interesting reading, even thinking about some extra training for me and the missus. just to prove to myself that im as good as I know I am of course

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Re: Gender ratio = interesting. I'd be further interested in the ratio of those with a sport cycling background vs those without. I have heard from many Triathletes who insist that they don't need road training purely on the basis that their Triathlon training means they're experienced riders. face palm

Another anecdote/opinion seeker - kind of relevant to some of VeeVee's tales:

I was riding up Gray's Inn Rd today, approaching the junction with Theobalds Rd/Clerkenwell Rd. My route would see me turning left to enter Clerkenwell Rd (and not taking the Rosebury Ave Lane).

Anyway, the lights were red, and ahead of me were a small van and a motorbike. I don't generally filter up the left in the godawful must-always-get-to-the-front-of-the-queue manoeuvre that's so popular these days, so I took 3rd spot in the queue in the left-hand lane.

Positioning: to the (rear and) left of the motorcyclist, so that I was more in his peripheral vision, and also firmly in his left-hand mirror; away from the kerb, but leaning enough with outstretched leg to block undertaking.

In the approach to this, I'd ridden past another cyclist - about 50 yards before stopping.

Before the lights change, the other cyclist, who's been waiting behind me, suddenly makes a move to wobble round me on my right, heading for the gap between me and the motorbike, I suppose.

Maybe it's because I've been responsible for a 3-year-old who's gone a bit mental for the past 5 days, but as soon as I was aware of the slow-speed wobble starting to my right, I put my right arm out, and said in a very firm parental tone "stay back!"

It didn't feel aggressive, and the cyclist complied. I simply wasn't prepared to allow anyone (but particularly someone I'd perceived as a less-than-competent rider) to fuck with the 'junction scenario' I'd engineered. It's a sketchy junction at the best of times (particularly due to the Rosebury Ave situation).

Was this too much? It proved extremely effective, but does the end justify the means?

There was no element of 'clotheslining' them with my arm. I just instinctively made the 'stay back' gesture with my hand and arm as soon as I noticed them twitch before pushing off. I've done it to other types of vehicle before, but is it flirting with conflict?

Did you explain to him why you did it? Was there time?

I find it's fairly unpredictable how people react.

No, no time. The lights changed immediately afterwards.

I've not done it before (signal with verbal for person not encapsulated in box), but it felt very right. I wouldn't even said it felt 'good'. Just right.

But it could be wrong…

Well, who knows, you might have saved him from a left hook. Perhaps he understood when the lights changed immediately.

So anyway, following on from my largely unreceived previous question, here's another instance of me interacting with a fellow cyclist:

• waiting in queue at lights on Clerkenwell Rd (west side), waiting to cross Farringdon Rd and head up Clerkenwell Rd (east side). There's the usual queue of cyclists who've filtered up the inside, but I've chosen to sit in the middle of the lane, behind a black cab.

• lights change, I set off, matching the speed of the motorised vehicles in front of me. I'm watching both this stream, and the stream of cyclists further over towards the kerb.

• in my mind, I'm prepared to either follow the motorised traffic as it passes slower moving cyclists, or filter back to the left in order to join the stream of cyclists; which decision to make should become obvious by the time I pass the Clerkenwell Green junction on the left.

• motorised traffic suddenly ups the pace more than I'm inclined to, so I prepare to filter to the left.

• at this point, another cyclist comes past me -CLOSELY- on the inside, before proceeding to squeeze between the line of bikes and the line of cars. I'm not happy. Thankfully I did a quick glance to my left before moving.

• catch up at next lights; I get his attention, and he takes an earphone out (*disclaimer: I'm not against earphone use on a bike *per se**).

"You shouldn't undertake other road users like that."
"You were in the middle of the road."
"I was in the middle of the lane, and about to move left. You should've swung out and overtaken me."
"You were in the middle of the road. I'm not going to ride on the wrong side of the road to get round you."
"I was in the middle of the lane. You had half a lane in which to pass me. Don't undertake, it's dangerous."
"You were in the middle of the road."
"Whatever."

Stupid arrogant dangerous prick :-|

Sounds like you were dealing with someone lacking any knowledge of moving with traffic streams. Not sure what that road is like but tempted to say, if you wanted to get where you were going, couldnt you filter to the right, leaving all the cyclists behind.?

Your glanceto the left was a good idea. if you saw the guy when you looked left could you have signalled to let him know you were slowing and changing lanes?

It may have been less risky to have remained in the main traffic stream (and slowed the driver behind you down for a while) till there was a clear space for you to move into the slower cyclist stream

@m.f - the stream of cyclists had sort of split into 2 groups (it's up a slight drag), and I felt that moving into the gap between them (5 or 6 bike lengths?) was the best move - before another weird junction (non right-angled turns on opposite sides of the road) with a pedestrian bollard/pinchpoint thingy in the middle of the road. I wasn't really in the mood to ride fast enough to justify holding the centre of the lane any longer either.

@skydancer - I withheld the signal I'd usually give as it would've smacked him in the chest. He must've barely missed my back wheel when doing a sudden dart to my left. As mentioned above, the clear space in the slower cyclist stream had presented itself, and that's where I was heading.

For the record, this wasn't a case of him 'passing on the left in slow moving queues of traffic'. It fucks me off when people want to be boy racers on their commute, but they're lacking the balls to overtake and ride near the dividing line.

i always feel a bit weird when talking to a new cyclist and recommending cycle training to them, like i'm being patronising or something, but all the people i have recommended it to so far have been really positive about it.

i always feel a bit weird when talking to a new cyclist and recommending cycle training to them, like i'm being patronising or something, but all the people i have recommended it to so far have been really positive about it.

If someone wished to take up other new skills such as swimming, cooking, fencing, judo or even downhill MTBing would you also feel patronising to suggest they got some coaching?

to ride effectively with minimum risk in traffic in london conditions does require a skill set that can be learnt through years of experience and from a few knocks or from a few hours of training.

What about taking up driving?

To cycle in traffic confidently 2-4 hours of training may be enough to aquire the skills
to drive, a person needs on average 49 hours of training to pass the test (can't remeber where i saw this figure)

Ah... Sorry, I misread your post. Don't mind me.

To cycle in traffic confidently 2-4 hours of training may be enough to aquire the skills
to drive, a person needs on average 49 hours of training to pass the test (can't remeber where i saw this figure)

But that presumes a certain degree of bike handling ability before the training. Car instruction starts with how the get the thing moving and use the gears. Not so much relates to how to cope with traffic.

if someone is about to undertake you in thhe manner in which BMMF is talking about, I would intentionally drift over to close up the gap, and force them to perform their I'm-a-racing-in-commuter-traffic-dork overtake on the correct side. If they persist in trying to surge on your left, and they clip your back wheel with their front, they're the one who's going down. I find this approach has been very effective, instead of trying to talk to these people, it has just been my instinct to do this recently. Means you are 'moving out of their way' and therefore appearing to be considerate yet actually preventing them from undertaking you, physically. Obviously I am not advocating intentionally clipping their wheel ... if you noticed them too late, you have to hold your line.

The starting point for the 2-4 hours is from when someone can balance on a bike and has time to practice between sessions.
(To learn to balance from scratch takes between 1-3 hours with a trainer)

I can't remember how much the driving test covers coping with traffic since did mine 32 years ago though I did a 'drive check' with the IAM which really did focus on coping techniques, many were similar to thechniques taught by cycle training (Positioning, anticipation, awareness communication)

i always feel a bit weird when talking to a new cyclist and recommending cycle training to them, like i'm being patronising or something, but all the people i have recommended it to so far have been really positive about it.

I think you just have to keep trying; some will go for it, some won't but those who do will be glad they did.
What sometimes works for me is asking if they have ever fancied taking a ride on the wild side, baby. Usually I have about four seconds before the first punch lands to throw a handful of CTUK flyers at them.

Why do people not use the gears on their bikes? Spent a lot of time this weekend getting trainees to understand what gears are for and to use them; including one, very likable, woman who arrived on her new Pashley having never changed it out of third gear. Not surprisingly, having attempted to get up a hill, she arrived on foot pushing it. A quick flick of the lever and suddenly she realises that cycling isn't half as difficult as she thought. And another trainee with 18 gears to choose from and only one had ever been used. Again, a few minutes getting her to experiment and she's away.

Tricity; there was a brief discussion of it here, I think http://www.lfgss.com/thread46026.html#post1601016
I'm not really in the know myself; my position is only one step up from the office photo copier really but from what I can glean there is some optimism that cycle training will survive.
Anyone thinking of becoming a cycle trainer should realise that it is hard to make a living at it anyway. Sadly if funding did go the number of people willing to pay the full price would be pretty small I think.
SkyDancer is the man with the inside knowledge; experienced, informed and, so I am told, an accomplished player of the accordian.

As with the general run of funding cuts, we haven't heard anything certain, only rumours. They'll be keeping things well under wraps until they're announced.

[....puts accordian down]

Apart from the article in the telegraph referred to above there has been no official announcements re funding post the october spending review.

In the con-dem drive to get rid of quangos, Cycling England as a body may not survive the cuts in its current state howevcer some projects controlled by CE will survive. (CE, CTC and sustrans have met the DfT to inform them what projects are happening that would help meet departmental transport/environment and health targets) The government are committed to getting people cycling and london government in particular is commited to this. I suspect Bikeability cycle training will live on for a few years yet.

CTUK recently trained Theresa Villiers the transport minister, who said that she felt more confident after the training. While not commmiting to anything and not able to, since cycling is Norman Baker's remit not hers, she did indicate that they do value training as a way of getting people cycling and said she would be relating her cycle training experience to 'number 10'

There is still funding (though not clear how much) to continue the capacity building within the sector by funding instructor training with the bursary which suggests that there are still bikeability wildernesses in some parts of the country. The Instructor Training Organisations will shortly be announced which will take the sector to the next level in terms of quality and professional development for cycling instructors.

[picks up accordion]

Thanks; that is far more info than I've been given from certain places I won't mention.

I struggle a bit with the "stay optimistic until an official announcement" approach, which is what I have been told. But I am disillusioned and cynical.

I have deleted my post in case certain people at places I won't mention don't like me being disillusioned and cynical on the internet.

Yes; he can get cycle training there from CTUK; it will cost him £8 for a 2 hr lesson, Lambeth paying the remainder. He can go to the CTUK website and fill in a form there: look under training/individual training-click on request a lesson in the text. Clapham common and Brockwell Park are two of the locations where a training session would begin. http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/
If he was any other questions he can phone CTUK or, at a pinch, me directly (number in the phone numbers thread).