Doping

In other words

GATHER ALL THE DATA!!!

I read that as punched.

From the little I have read about Hesjedal it seems like he falls into a similar bracket to Lance, in that he is an arsehole as well as a cheat.

He needs some sort of flipping censure, whether it's a ban or a punch in the face or an evening around Hippy's pad.

Garmin looks increasingly like a boys club of ex-dopers set up specifically to extend the working life of known cheats.

This. I was a believer in Vaughters and the Garmin ethic, but Ryder's case strikes me as a continuation of omerta. I don't mind censured riders like Millar coming back into the peloton and (hopefully) riding clean but I don't like riders that management and even ADAs know has doped continuing to ride, earn a living and win races despite having cheated massively in the past and gotten away with it. A team with Garmin's stated aims should have admitted his doping long before and done some sort of penance for it, like a voluntary break from the sport.

He needs some sort of flipping censure, whether it's a ban or a punch in the face or an evening around Hippy's pad.

Ryder 'Hi there darl'

^ Don't get it.

Think we should line up dopers like Ryder who have escaped censure, then invite all the cheated fans and just do a mass cock punch on them

Eeew...

This. I was a believer in Vaughters and the Garmin ethic, but Ryder's case strikes me as a continuation of omerta. I don't mind censured riders like Millar coming back into the peloton and (hopefully) riding clean but I don't like riders that management and even ADAs know has doped continuing to ride, earn a living and win races despite having cheated massively in the past and gotten away with it. A team with Garmin's stated aims should have admitted his doping long before and done some sort of penance for it, like a voluntary break from the sport.

Garmin's policy is very clear, if riders are asked to co-operate with WADA or other recognised anti-doping organisations, then they should do so fully. Hesjedal has, presumably, disclosed everything to the Canadian anti-doping agency, as per his Garmin contract, and they are unable to sanction him because the WADA code has a clear line on the statute of limitations.

What I don't get is why he has to go further to appease the twitterati and other internet forum people? He's made a decision to ride clean and should be applauded for that.

Save your opprobrium for the likes of Valverde, Scarponi, di Luca et al, who've doped for far longer, got busted and still maintained innocence.

What I don't get is why he has to go further to appease the twitterati and other internet forum people? He's made a decision to ride clean and should be applauded for that.

Save your opprobrium for the likes of Valverde, Scarponi, di Luca et al, who've doped for far longer, got busted and still maintained innocence.

They're as bad as each other, he's only admitted anything because it keeps his employer happy and he knows he's gotten away with it. As Chicken has pointed the finger, but the statute of limitations applies, all he has to do is "yeah, it's a fair cop guv, I'm a changed man, learnt the error of my ways"...

Save your opprobrium for the likes of Valverde, Scarponi, di Luca et al, who've doped for far longer, got busted and still maintained innocence.

The only difference between these guys and Millar, Ryder et al is they have taken different advice / used different strategies to continue their careers.

They're as bad as each other, he's only admitted anything because it keeps his employer happy and he knows he's gotten away with it. As Chicken has pointed the finger, but the statute of limitations applies, all he has to do is "yeah, it's a fair cop guv, I'm a changed man, learnt the error of my ways"...

This 1000%. Sorry Andy but Ryder has earnt a living from cheating, he's in the position he is because he cheated and cost other, clean riders their career in the process. He won the Giro last year and we all applauded and liked the fact a clean rider had won it and now I'm not sure anymore. I think Garmin is a well run team, but I also think Ryder may have been up to something not sanctioned by Vaughters.

I read somewhere the last team JV rode for he was told not to dope, He did it anyway. How real is Garmin as a clean team, and how much is PR?

They're as bad as each other, he's only admitted anything because it keeps his employer happy and he knows he's gotten away with it. As Chicken has pointed the finger, but the statute of limitations applies, all he has to do is "yeah, it's a fair cop guv, I'm a changed man, learnt the error of my ways"...

You do understand that he'd cooperated with USADA well over a year ago, don't you? All Rasmussen's finger pointing has done is made it public.

Jimmy, all this hand-wringing is fairly tedious.

"I read somewhere..." - seriously? Come on mate. I've read almost everything somewhere on the the internet.

Every time a doping revelation comes out you give the same old performance. Why not be pragmatic instead of dramatic? Cycling is in transition, it will be slow and it will be painful... and almost everyone will be implicated in some way. The best that you can really hope for is that the sport will be clean in 5-10 years.

Fine, lets swallow the PR. Here's JV's bio from the team's website, that tells it like it is:

In 2003, at only 30 years old, Jonathan decided to step away from a successful, but tough professional cycling career. He was perhaps young to retire, but clearly had maximized his abilities at a somewhat earlier age than most through ground-breaking training techniques, and extreme focus. In his 10 years as a professional cyclist he set the record up Mount Ventoux, and was an integral part of the winning team time trial squad in stage 5 of the 2001 Tour de France. Nonetheless, at 30, he decided to dedicate more time to his growing family, and to the business aspect of the fastest growing sport in the US.

Obviously that's straight up real.

You find my posts tedious, I find yours obnoxious. You don't like 'em stick me on ignore and do us both a favour.

Frankly, I always knew that Ryder was not a normal rider because of that silly 'y' in his name.

"I read somewhere..." - seriously? Come on mate. I've read almost everything somewhere on the the internet.

http://www.bicycling.com/garmin-insider/featured-stories/exclusive-interview-vaughters-reveals-more-about-his-doping-and-new-?page=0,4

From the horse's mouth. Thank you and fuck you

But in 2002 the danger was that the entire team might not make the race the next year if they didn’t get results. Although Vaughters had a contract and wasn’t in danger of getting fired, he wanted to help the team.

“So I was in a place where I was prepared to start doping again,” he says. “I knew by doping I would disappoint Roger, but by doing poorly I would also disappoint Roger.”

If you find my posts obnoxious then you must be a rather delicate flower.

For the record, I'm not saying you should swallow the PR - rather that you would probably be less 'hurt' by the constant drip drip drip of doping stories if you were a bit more pragmatic and less sensationalist.

http://www.bicycling.com/garmin-insider/featured-stories/exclusive-interview-vaughters-reveals-more-about-his-doping-and-new-?page=0,4

From the horse's mouth. Thank you and fuck you

charming.

Friendliest forum on the fucking internet, dohn chu no.

you want to take this outside?

Nah, it's freezing.

I don't keep up with these threads much anymore, but... Wait, did people really think Ryder was squeaky clean? Do you think the peloton did? Omerta? Wtf are you guys on about?

Even I, a reluctant fanboy, was questioning his past in 2010 (I even asked Andy about it, and he was pretty clear that he felt he was clean then, but wouldn't be willing to take a stance regarding his US Postal days). If a knowledgeable gentleman like AndyP, and a total idiot like me, were both skeptical, wtf were you guys doing? Is it simply because he didn't stand up in 2008 (or earlier) and take a punch in the face before anyone else was? When many were (and it would seem, still are) doping? Or should he have done it once he started performing well (presumably) clean? Because that's what we as fans want - riders who are winning great races, or even performing well, while clean, to say: "Fuck it, I did dope everyone - take this away."

If you find my posts obnoxious then you must be a rather delicate flower.

Hang on, you're the one rustling Jimmies.

Whether you agree with Jimmy or not he's welcome to out his point across.

I didn't say that he wasn't - just that it would be easier to take him seriously if wasn't so 'Broadway' about it every time. Fwiw I've always enjoyed Jimmy's posts but recently it seems like he's rolling out pre-formed opinions with much wailing/gnashing of teeth - pulled straight from The Clinc (which it is possible to read, but take with a pinch of salt).

My point is that the sport is in a period of change and there is no clear line you can draw under a certain date and say 'before bad, after good' which certain people seem intent on doing. That approach is pointlessly black and white - cycling in its current state is very very grey. Better to be realistic than optimistic this point.

+1 for what horatio said. Given his history I'm astonished that anyone is surprised by all this.