26" vs 700c

riding on a fixed trick frame is much more fun than the mtb stuff, mainly because of the geo! i personally love the tricks that are fixed drivetrain specific!
all this giant bmx stuff is cool as well though, because although kids are doing it on bmxs more easily, i think thats the whole point. fixed bmx style is HARD. some people just like a challenge i guess??

Out of interest what part of the geo is it that makes a fixed trick bike more fun?
I'm asking specifically about the angles and effective tube lengths here.

Volume put out a 26" BMX which was aimed at people who wanted a bike that was still good for commuting:

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm296/southsidess/Zslide1.jpg

Really, I believe its for racing and not commuting.

Out of interest what part of the geo is it that makes a fixed trick bike more fun?
I'm asking specifically about the angles and effective tube lengths here.

good question. I just found the geometry and wheel size completely cumbersome and ill suited!

Sorry to be a pedant but what specifically about the geometry. Which angles? What tube lengths?

Are we talking about the effective toptube being too short?
Is the headtube angle not right? Too steep, too slack?
How about the BB height/drop?

Most track frame specific tricks and fixed gear specific are done sitting which regular trick frames, MTB and BMX are not prepared to. And for me I'ts the part of having the oportunity to use it as my commuter and then hit a park or spot to trick or... if I have the guts or skillz (which i don't yet) do it on the way!

Sorry to be a pedant but what specifically about the geometry. Which angles? What tube lengths?

Are we talking about the effective toptube being too short?
Is the headtube angle not right? Too steep, too slack?
How about the BB height/drop?

The type of geo that nobody actually has a clue about but talks about it because the people listening also don't have a clue what makes a 'good' freestyle fixed bike. cough cough ahem, cough cough buy a bmx cough cough

Most track frame specific tricks and fixed gear specific are done sitting which regular trick frames, MTB and BMX are not prepared to.

I don't really see that as geometry, it's just the type of bike.
That's like saying lo pro pursuit frames haven't got good geometry for hitting world cup downhill mtb courses.

BMX stand for bicycle motorcross, it wasn't until people start using it for trick when they realise the potiental of it.

Beach cruiser were used as it name suggested, but it wasn't until people start using it off roading in Marin Country when they realise the potiental of it.

Obree radical position during the Hour were laughed at, deemed ridiculous by UCI and the like, until people start realising the potiental it for time trialing.

Point being, don't dismissed it just because it's unorthodox.

BMX stand for bicycle motorcross, it wasn't until people start using it for trick when they realise the potiental of it.

Beach cruiser were used as it name suggested, but it wasn't until people start using it off roading in Marin Country when they realise the potiental of it.

Obree radical position during the Hour were laughed at, deemed ridiculous by UCI and the like, until people start realising the potiental it for time trialing.

Point being, don't dismissed it just because it's unorthodox.

I don't think it is being dismissed. It is just being questioned, that is all.

What makes a track bike based geometry more fun for tricks than MTB geometry was the question. This is not whether it is better, but whether it is more fun.

I have used a 700c trick bike setup in the usual manner and it just feels cumbersome compared to an MTB and to me at least cumbersome = less fun.
BMX is the most fun but have to agree they are not great for riding distance on. For me the compromise would be nearer to an MTB style bike than a track style bike.

Who knows, a year or two and that may be the direction they go...

I think the problem is that it's precisely what makes a bike good for riding distances that makes it bad for riding tricks and vice versa.
It all boils down to seat height and leg extension.

Life is a compromise, choose where to make yours. Or something.

None of this answer my question. Though Kerley has just put more time into explaining his view point than most.

Have some specifics:
The headtube on an NS Majesty is 70.5 degrees when used with an average length A-C dirtjump suspension fork.
I use a shorter rigid fork with 26mm rake. This tightens the headtube to 74 degrees.

As a direct comparrison;
The Milwalke Bruiser has a headtube of 74.5 degrees.
According to the charge website the scissor is 71.5 degrees
I could not find the headtube angle of the ESB.

I have 26" wheels with 2.3" tyres - total outside diameter of 675.84mm
700c wheels with 32s have a total outside diameter of 686mm
The difference is negligible.

The rear end on a dirtjump frame is as short as possible (Wheel slammed to seattube) - exactly the same as a fixed wheel freestyle bike.

The effective toptubes are also comparrible.

As for saddle height being an issue, that's what seatposts are for.
Using a 410mm seatpost anyone upto around 6' would be able to get full leg extension on a dirtjump frame.

Which brings me back to my original question.

Rather than just throwing around the catchall phrase, "riding on a fixed trick frame is much more fun than the mtb stuff, mainly because of the geo" or "the geo is too slack, therefore no good for fixed tricks", it would be sensible if you could actually justify the meaning behind this.

What part of the geo is it that makes a fixed trick bike more fun?

Before anyone feels the need to get defensive, I'm not hating. I'm genuinely interested.
I do not ride fixed freestyle. But, I do BMX and mountain bike

As far as I'm concerned, people having fun on bikes is all good. No matter what their chosen ride. Give me 2 human powered wheels and I will end up with a big shit eating grin on my face.

I'm just trying to find out why people from the 700cmx side of things are so resistant to using products which are already on the market.
If it's simply an image/style/fashion thing then cool, just say that. If it's genuinely to do with something specific in how the bike is built or designed then I'd love to know.

Like I said I do not ride fixed tricks and have no intention of starting either so the only way I'll get answers to these questions is by asking people.

The headtube on an NS Majesty is 70.5 degrees when used with an average length A-C dirtjump suspension fork.
I use a shorter rigid fork with 26mm rake. This tightens the headtube to 74 degrees.

OK, but the shorter fork will also give you a steeper ST angle?

idontknowanythingaboutthissojustasking

i ride around mostly on a 26" wheelset.
can't do tricks for fuckery though.
Fell down a set of stairs a couple of times the other day.
I mean fell, like face first, there were only 4 of them also.

@ Fruitbat

Agreed. However, the steeper seattube angle makes the frames even more comparrible to the fixed trick bikes.

And before people start talking about pedal strike and low BBs etc. I use my Majesty to play polo. 175mm cranks, very hard sharp cornering and I've encountered pedal strike preciely twice.

i ride around mostly on a 26" wheelset.
can't do tricks for fuckery though.
Fell down a set of stairs a couple of times the other day.
I mean fell, like face first, there were only 4 of them also.

You only have four faces? fucking hell Henry.

Object - love the posts (sort of where I was going when I asked the same Q last yr)... I'd really like to hear an answer too... altho I'm not sure why as I'll never try 700cmxing.

Just a couple of counters - in your eg can you bar spin? and...

...with an MTB you dont have track dropouts to ride fixed... but then given the massive cost of all the fixed trickery I'd guess you'd save enough by using mtb parts to replace the dropouts.

Answers on a postcard please ;)

plenty of mtbs have trackends. Objects does.

And sliding dropout too, oh and eccentric BB as well.

Just to be devil's advocate,
Im surprised noone has mentioned how the wider (135mm std) rear end on mtb frames dictates a wider/larger/higher q factor which might detrimentally effect pedal clearance.