Homeopathy

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There's no evidence that homeopathic remedies are any more effective than placebos.

Ben Goldacre writes well on the subject... http://www.badscience.net/category/complementary-medicine/homeopathy/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlTcwcELO_o

there's a huge dicussion about that here not long ago, but couldn't find it in search though.

pony, read the 'what is homeopathy' section on the soc. of homeopaths website. the typical dilution is 30 c which means the original substance has been diluted by one drop in a hundred, thirty times over..30 c contains less than one part per million of the original substance. its placebo.'go see the doctor.' (kool moe dee 1986)

I know all of that, and have been guilty of taking the piss out of people when they talk about seeing a homeopathic (my favourite is saying "have you tried lighting a candle?")

But the fact of the matter is that it DOES work and is even recommended by leading medical bodies in places like India for treating things like asthma.

It works and I feel stupid for denying the fact just because I have never known how.

There is a lot of good herbal/ayurvedic medicine available in India & Bangladesh, but homeopathy is seen is much higher regard and superior in effectiveness.

So does anyone have an idea of how it works? Is there some secret magic going on in the solutions?

Homeopathy is not herbal or ayurvedic. it is water. possibly slightly scented. it has no active ingredients whatsoever and thus no effect whatsoever, except what may or may not be going on in the patients head.

anyhoo, this will probably be my last post in this thread as whenever i get into a conversation about homeopathy i end up upsetting people....

Where's Tynan?

But the fact of the matter is that it DOES work and is even recommended by leading medical bodies in places like India for treating things like asthma.

It works and I feel stupid for denying the fact just because I have never known how.

it does NOT work beyond a placebo. it isn't some ancient form of treatment, it originated from a german in the late 1700's (i know you didn't say that it didn't). these are statements that are backed up with much research. where are you getting your evidence from?

from http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Homeopathy/Pages/Issues.aspx

For example, a study published in The Lancet, in 2005, looked at over 100 clinical trials and could find no evidence that homeopathy worked any better than a placebo.

if you are convinced it works, then you like many people who believe what they want to hear, and become better through some sort of holistic treatment and being nice to you in scented rooms rather than NHS surgery. but don’t tell me it can cure AIDS or moan when you spent money on that rather than bike stuff.

pony, read the 'what is homeopathy' section on the soc. of homeopaths website. the typical dilution is 30 c which means the original substance has been diluted by one drop in a hundred, thirty times over..30 c contains less than one part per million of the original substance. its placebo.'go see the doctor.' (kool moe dee 1986)

So, basically, there's not enough matter in the universe to make those dilutions!

Homeopathy is not herbal or ayurvedic. it is water. possibly slightly scented. it has no active ingredients whatsoever and thus no effect whatsoever, except what may or may not be going on in the patients head.

anyhoo, this will probably be my last post in this thread as whenever i get into a conversation about homeopathy i end up upsetting people....

You basically sound like me when I have dismissed other peoples interest in homeopathy as delusional foolishness.

But I realised I was being hugely ignorant as I dont know anything about it, and I expect neither do you.

But like I said, it is evident that it does work. Perhaps I shouldve gathered some good sources of evidence before starting this thread!

But this is aimed at people who know about the functionality already, thought there might be at least one homeopathic fixie skidder on the forum and a few people who have received treatment.

The purpose of this was not for me to defend that it works, I was hoping someone could explain how it works.

So, basically, there's not enough matter in the universe to make those dilutions!

what? there are many more than a million molecules of water in the universe.

sorry if i missed something.

And it DOES work for many things. Beyond being a simple placebo. There is a lot of good herbal/ayurvedic medicine available in India & Bangladesh, but homeopathy is seen is much higher regard and superior in effectiveness.

It doesn't work any better than placebo, according to the only decent meta-analyses done. Sorry. But the placebo effect is actually very powerful, and very interesting. The only reason that reputable doctors refuse to take advantage of the placebos that Complementary and Alternative Medicine offers is that they don't like lying to their patients. Otherwise they could just give them sugar pills themselves, say "this will make you better" and cut out the middleman of bonkers pseudoscience.

Herbal medicine is another thing, and lots of herbs have active ingredients that affect the body. However, there's insufficient research to know whether what you're taking is safe, dangerous, or does nothing at all.

After all there's a reason for the joke "Q. What do you call alternative medicine that works? A. Medicine" Aspirin comes from willowbark and Digitalis (from foxgloves) is used to treat heart attacks. You'll notice that they give you these drugs in pills, rather than mashed up poultices. That's because the active ingredient has been isolated and studied and can now be given in a controlled dose with a predictable effect.

So does anyone have an idea of how it works? Is there some secret magic going on in the solutions?

As above: it doesn't, at least any better than sugar pills, or little bottles of flavoured water. [Unless it really does work by magic.]

Worth noticing that homeopathy has been around for about 200 years (invented by an eccentric German doctor) and no decent evidence suggesting it works, or a plausible mechanism for how it could work, have been suggested. Compare that to Quantum Mechanics, which has been around for about 100 years. Why waste time on nonsense?

this must be a pisstake.

Ooh. Bit late.

I was hoping someone could explain how it works.

Well, that would be entertaining since no one, ever, in the whole world has ever explained how homeopathy works. Not that it does, no matter how many times you assert the opposite. You are right you should have come armed with some evidence; though on the other hand if you have proof that homeopathy works maybe you should keep it close to your chest because, again, no one ever in the whole world has produced that proof before so you stand to make a few quid from it at least.

You basically sound like me when I have dismissed other peoples interest in homeopathy as delusional foolishness.

But I realised I was being hugely ignorant as I dont know anything about it, and I expect neither do you.

But like I said, it is evident that it does work. Perhaps I shouldve gathered some good sources of evidence before starting this thread!

But this is aimed at people who know about the functionality already, thought there might be at least one homeopathic fixie skidder on the forum and a few people who have received treatment.

The purpose of this was not for me to defend that it works, I was hoping someone could explain how it works.

au contraire, I know plenty about homeopathy, and ive had this debate a gazillion times before, the fact is it ONLY works in as much as it is a placebo. no more no less. if you can show me some SCIENTIFIC proof of its effectivness in practice and the theory behind it, then i will more than happily bow down and eat my own shoes and possibly the tyres off my bike...

Where's Tynan?

But the fact of the matter is that it DOES work and is even recommended by leading medical bodies in places like India for treating things like asthma.

It works and I feel stupid for denying the fact just because I have never known how.

Why are you saying it works? Based on what evidence? Lots of people believe in it?

But I realised I was being hugely ignorant as I dont know anything about it, and I expect neither do you.

You are being both ignorant and arrogant in assuming that other people don't know about homeopathy. The reason no-one is going to tell you how it works, is that it doesn't.

But like I said, it is evident that it does work. Perhaps I shouldve gathered some good sources of evidence before starting this thread!

Hmm, perhaps.

The purpose of this was not for me to defend that it works, I was hoping someone could explain how it works.

You are shit out of luck.

How it works.

http://www.b3tards.com/u/f52b8194b89ba7c084fa/homeo.jpg

Ben Goldacre on the placebo effect and side-effects. Though we can assume the studies mentioned are already familiar to DFP.

http://www.badscience.net/2009/11/all-bow-before-the-mighty-power-of-the-nocebo-effect/#more-1403

@seeds

I am fairly knowledgeable in how common pharmaceutical and herbal medicine works.

@velo

I read that NHS link and was very interested to see it mentioned quantum mechanics. That could be it. Although the historical roots of homeopathy would suggest otherwise. It is too long ago for people to have known about quantum physics yet not long ago enough for something to have been evolved through trial & error.

EDIT - this thread is moving too fast for me to reply. I think I may abandon ship now, its clear no one here is familiar with the "functionality" of homeopathy.

[QUOTE=DFP;1193114
its clear no one here is familiar with the "functionality" of homeopathy.[/QUOTE]

Thank you; laughter really is the best medicine.

Thank you; laughter really is the best medicine.

Repped