Eilidh Cairns verdict

I'd donate. Could we do it as a larger scale find raiser? LCC/YACF/LFGSS/any others event?

You'll need to time it right to make sure people have cash to donate (i.e. before December or after January).

I'd contribute.

I'd donate. Could we do it as a larger scale find raiser? LCC/YACF/LFGSS/any others event?

This would be best. Get as many cycling-focused groups involved as possible. I have no experience of organising / assisting with this sort of thing but very much willing to help.

The fucktones...

yes forum event plus plus plus.

can we 'reverse' into the tweed run ?

or 'copycat' a similar fun event (with a serious message / cause rolled into one ?

to capture all cyclists and the publics imagination.

lets get our thinking caps on :-)

how about a mass ride of the new blue routes ?

Ready to donate. How about a bike jumble fundraiser?

Any more enthusiasm for holding a forum fundraiser?
A big fat yes from me, and hopefully the other Southwark Cyclists.

would contribute, and would also give a few parts to jumble sale

jumble sale a good idea btw

jumble sale a good idea btw

Pretty sure LMNH would get involved venue-wise for this.

Jumble sale, Fucktones gig--any more ideas?

Both sound good. Would Fucktones be willing?

You'll need to time it right to make sure people have cash to donate (i.e. before December or after January).

I'd contribute.

Absolutely. Let's maybe plan for something early next year. It hurt to lose Eilidh but then you get the bill. That's just an extra kick in the head. Would be great to do something fun. And not just for Eilidh's family but for all the families having to pay ludicrous amounts for things such as police reports. It's criminal that these things cost money. I'd pay bike tax if it went to these families.

Great, let's say early in the New Year and let's think about what it'll be.

perhaps it would be prudent to check with the family to see if they want their name attached to whatever it is that is maybe/possibly being talked about here.

/Fucktones were born willing.

perhaps it would be prudent to check with the family to see if they want their name attached to whatever it is that is maybe/possibly being talked about here.
I agree

perhaps it would be prudent to check with the family to see if they want their name attached to whatever it is that is maybe/possibly being talked about here.

/Fucktones were born willing.

All good. They would appreciate the help.

Feel so sad about this but we all must keep fighting.

Full judgement is here.
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2890.html

Not an easy thing to read though, but a couple of points brought me up short:

Point 52 of the judgement seems to say that the coroner was right not to consider whether some measures could be found to prevent similar deaths in future because there are no such measures.

Point 53, that deaths like this often result from collisions between HGvs and cyclists, so there can't be anything of general benefit to learn by examining this one.

This is some truly contemptible erroneous circular reasoning. The earlier parts take each point of the family's attempts to prompt an effective inquest and twists each out of it's context in the whole to find a way of dismissing it. The main impression i get from reading through the judgement is that coroners have the right to do as they damn well please and how dare anyone question that.

From the Judicial Review I understand that Coroners are not obliged to make a recommendation even if they could save another life. It's totally up to them whether they do or don't. Some do, some don't. It's the luck of the draw regarding which Coroner you get. And that's 'ok' according to the Crown Court because that's all that's expected.

The fact that the driver that killed Eilidh killed again (Nora) this year in his lorry shows that the current laws are not working. The Judicial Review findings showed that the coroner did nothing wrong as far as the law goes. But I think it's the law that makes this acceptable that's wrong. It's sickening that another death by the same driver will probably mean nothing... What did they expect when they let this driver back on the road? I hope the Coroner quits for the sake of all of us. I also hope the government learn from the loss of Eilidh and Nora.

Having spoken to Kate (Eilidh's sister) again I think she'd prefer we (cyclists) don't pay ourselves. I understand that. Why should we? Is there a way to get 'them' to pay. Maybe we could do something for the awareness side of it though?

What other options are available for pursuing this?

The Government are discussing Coronial reform. We need mandatory preventative recommendations from Coroners. It's a start: http://www.inquest.org.uk/pdf/briefings/INQUEST_September_2011_Briefing_on_Public_Bodies_Bill.pdf

a mass protest ride would be good, and show kate how much we all support the great work she is dedicated to pursuing in memory of eilidh

+1^ on the lines of 'occupy' a national protest ride might even take off.

Point 8 is incredible.

"8. The lack of direct evidence of the movement of the cycle in the moments before the collision meant that it could not be said with certainty precisely when Ms Cairns would have been in front of the HGV or in the view of its driver. According to the collision expert, in the moment immediately before the impact, **Ms Cairns would have been in view of the proximity mirror of the HGV but he said that a driver would not be expected to look into that mirror while he was driving along. **"

Having spoken to Kate (Eilidh's sister) again I think she'd prefer we (cyclists) don't pay ourselves. I understand that. Why should we? Is there a way to get 'them' to pay. Maybe we could do something for the awareness side of it though?

So Kate doesn't want a fundraiser to be organised?

I do understand her point, too. I agree, it's not just about cyclists, but surely the fundraiser would be open for others who might not ride a bike to participate. Perhaps we've only just started to think about it and will come up with a way. Has Kate decided what, if anything, the next step in her campaign will be? We could do something targeted to support that.

Having spoken to Kate (Eilidh's sister) again I think she'd prefer we (cyclists) don't pay ourselves. I understand that. Why should we? Is there a way to get 'them' to pay. Maybe we could do something for the awareness side of it though?

I understand that but what she is doing is of benefit to us all and it would be nice to be able to support her in some way even if it's not financially.