Anyone own up?

i would like to bring God into this debate

s/he is unavailable to comment. but s/he is watching what we're up to... so i've been told.

...a bit like father christmas

i would like to bring God into this debate

God is implicated in this rush to statism, the reason the state is tightening the strictures on freedom week by week - statue by statute - is built on the threat from religious terrorism.

I am not too sure that the surveillance drones are likely to look like that blimp, they are more like tiny unmanned aeroplanes - and will be operated at around 20,000ft - which is out of the range of sight of someone on the ground - but I do agree a large part of surveillance is to instil in people the sense that the state is watching them everywhere and all the time - and like you say this leads to society regulating it's behaviour.

which is obviously why the rate of (reported) crime has fallen so much recently.

I was never sure whether I like Mark Thomas as a comedian or not. I now am - that was hilarious! I love how the Senior Police Officer doesn't know what's going on round the corner from him.

I just read the comments on this story on the Evening Standard page...

Talk about exaggerating. I wouldn't want this copper testifying against me in court should I ever have the misfortune to be there. He wasn't hit by a cyclist, he was in a near-miss according to his account. To say he was nearly killed is about as logical as saying he was nearly raped by the cyclist. A collision didn't happen. Hypothecating about the result of what might have happened has no place in a responsible policeman's evidence!

- Richard, London

Come on, own up, who on here is 'Richard'?!

And here's the reason we look like we're trying to run peds down

I myself was very lucky to not being hit by a cyclist when walking out onto the pavement from my driveway.Now I look right and left to be sure to get out!
- Old Contemptible, Poole, England

He jokingly says "I'm a dick and don't look before walking out of my driveway."

darn. beaten by tynan by just a matter of hours..

he is watching you...

This just gets better and better

Still this is obviously why the Met recently dropped thousands of leaflets through Camden letterboxes entitled 'Guns, burglary and cycling on the pavement' lol

The police are now putting 'cycling on pavements' in the same category as burglary and gun crime! Oh dear, what is this city coming to.

This just gets better and better

The police are now putting 'cycling on pavements' in the same category as burglary and gun crime! Oh dear, what is this city coming to.

In fairness it's always the hooded youths who are cycling on the pavement...

...and they are the gun-tooting burglars... so I say fair enough!

...and they are the gun-tooting burglars... so I say fair enough!

To be fair, gun crime in Tooting has always been a problem

Tooting's in Camden?!

I find this sort of thing worrying.
No, not dragonflies.
Little robot dragonflies with built in cameras.
I've read reports of people seeing such things buzzing around at protest marches.

the police seem to be out of control at the moment.

Some one needs to crash into them on a bike.

I am not too sure that the surveillance drones are likely to look like that blimp, they are more like tiny unmanned aeroplanes - and will be operated at around 20,000ft - which is out of the range of sight of someone on the ground - but I do agree a large part of surveillance is to instil in people the sense that the state is watching them everywhere and all the time - and like you say this leads to society regulating it's behaviour.

it's such a broad stroke approach, number plater/facial recognition.. anything useful will not be picked up. CCTV fails to identify any detail. this is several 1,000 meters further away.

It's almost as if BAE has an friend in central Gvt who is keen for the police to use these. wonder what they will cost us.. wonder what they will cost when you go on to factor the computational power needed to analyse and store the data it captures, staff to run it and expensive consultants hired in to build a case showing how effective they are.

maybe that money should be better spent on those bomb detectors..

...maybe that money should be better spent on those bomb detectors..

If you're serious, I know a bloke who knows a bloke.

the divine BRM

it's such a broad stroke approach, number plater/facial recognition.. anything useful will not be picked up. CCTV fails to identify any detail. this is several 1,000 meters further away.

I expect they will be using high powered sensors rather than SD/HD sensors used in CCTV.

But it is true that all this technology is cursed by poor data quality - ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) is said to be less than 65% accurate - but the police use it as if it were inerrant gospel: (from the Independent 17th Jan 10)

*Bhnisha Hirani, 28, drove from Essex to Coventry to collect her belongings last October after splitting up with a boyfriend whom she feared.

She says her request for a local police escort was refused as no officers were available. But two arrived later at the ex-boyfriend's house and seized her car for being uninsured. She offered her policy number, but says the officer refused to investigate why the car did not show up on the ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) database.

Ms Hirani said the officers left her in the dark outside the house. "I was stranded – no money, no food, no coat, nothing." She stayed with a distant relative who lent her £150 to have the car released the next day.

In her complaint, she wrote: "I had offered every possible form of confirmation of my insurance at the scene and [the officer] refused to look at it.*

And whilst the ANPR systems routinely fines and prosecutes innocent people, CCTV has been shown in endless reports (mostly from the government themselves) to be absolutely ineffective.

**Home Office's study (292/2005) **

It would be easy to conclude from the information presented in this report that CCTV is not effective: the majority of the schemes evaluated did not reduce crime and even where there was a reduction this was mostly not due to CCTV; nor did CCTV schemes make people feel safer, much less change their behaviour.

University of Wales Violence Research Group, 1999

"This study provides no evidence of a deterrent effect."
[Effect of closed circuit television on urban violence (Violence Research Group, University of Wales College of Medicine, Cardiff) 1999]

Local Government Studies,1999

“CCTV may actually undermine the natural surveillance in towns and communities . . . the result may be a further spiral of social fragmentation and atomization, which leads to more alienation and even more crime.”
['Towns on Television: Closed Circuit TV Systems in British Towns and Cities’]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Home Office Study 252 (2002)

Home Office study showed that CCTV an “undesirable effect” in Newcastle
– Total crime fell by 21.6% in the area with cameras but by 29.7% in the area where there were no cameras
It was found that CCTV had no effect on violent crimes (from five studies)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Cambridge evaluation, 2007

“the Cambridge evaluation is consistent with prior research in showing no significant desirable effect of CCTV on crime in city centres.”
[The Cambridge evaluation of the effects of CCTV on crime]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

London Assembly, 2007

'there is no correlation between CCTV and crime clear-up rate
4 out of 5 of boroughs with most cameras have below average record of solving crime"

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Oxford Policing Policy Forum, 2008

“Britain is in danger of becoming a society where everyone is effectively 'on parole'”

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

National CCTV Strategy Published October 2007

"Anecdotal evidence suggests that over 80% of the CCTV footage supplied to the police is far from ideal, especially if it is being used for primary identification or identities are unknown and identification is being sought, for instance, by media release."

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

2008 Campbell Collaboration Update to 2002 Study - (Part funded by National Policing Improvement Agency)
41 CCTV evaluations in four main settings: city and town centres; public housing; public transport; and car parks.

“the evaluations of CCTV schemes in city and town centres and public housing [...] as well as those focused on public transport, did not have a significant effect on crime.”

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

It's almost as if BAE has an friend in central Gvt who is keen for the police to use these.

Of course.

wonder what they will cost us.. wonder what they will cost when you go on to factor the computational power needed to analyse and store the data it captures, staff to run it and expensive consultants hired in to build a case showing how effective they are.

Eventually when it is rolled out - billions, this first stage will incur "large capital costs" - but not to worry some of that will be clawed back by selling the data from the mass surveillance of the British public to commercial interests. Cool.

That's quite a collection you have there.

Look what they are doing in the homeland too..
http://www.internetblackout.com.au/

I despair.

Eventually when it is rolled out - billions, this first stage will incur "large capital costs" - but not to worry some of that will be clawed back by selling the data from the mass surveillance of the British public to commercial interests. Cool.

This is the crux!
I am not sure if the buying of these these costly toys, rolled out by decision making suits in meetings fighting for power and budget need justification. so to dig them out of a hole they sell to the commercial industrys.

OR
They buy them with a sole intent to gather information and a thinly veiled explanation on how it aids police work.

Insurance seems to be the biggest benefactor.

it's a massive amount of money to stop apple scrumpers and gypsies...

Sometimes I wonder if people would have got ideas like CCTV into their heads if George Orwell hadn't imagined Big Brother. I suppose there must have been people who imagined it before him, but his was still the best literary expression.

Shame people missed the point when reading it

I am so glad that there are a few of you posting on this sort of subject, because over and above all the cracks and banter that go on, it is really good to have this hard edge when it counts. cheers.

Or would you have the pedos running the streets

They were in "The Warriors" right?

Tynan do you have huge database with those quotes on?
Could this be linked to your computer problems?

I am so glad that there are a few of you posting on this sort of subject, because over and above all the cracks and banter that go on, it is really good to have this hard edge when it counts. cheers.

+1

i love the way my original post has changed into a really interesting/disturbing thread!