Foffa Bikes

Well then, spend £500-700 more on a better frame and cut £500-700 from the parts budget.

Edscoble, just so you know we do listen to customers and have changed our mechanics after feedback from this forum as well.

I'll believe that when we'll no longer see poorly assemblies Foffa being dragged in our shop.

You also forgot the difference between trade and retail price...

to get attention.

It's all about fat bikes now.

Obviously there are some questionable and inelegant component choices on the Foffa, as you would expect, but that's not to say that it wouldn't be possible for somebody, who knew about bicycles and with some taste, to build a £3k bike around the Foffa frame which you snobs would post in the porn thread if it had different decals.

Oh, shut up!

Oh and Apollo is my real frame.

Ppfff He has his name on something far nicer.

I think quoting off the shelf RRP prices to justify the cost of that build is a bit disingenuous.

For example: the Campag Bullet wheels-you quote £1317.99 but you can readily buy them for £975

the chorus groupset you quote £1254.99 but you can easily score for £825 so I've already saved your customer nigh on £500 just using google. Is the margin on top of that the price of your 'brand passion'?

If you are a trader you should have access to trade prices, if you don't, I find that very strange. If I'm buying a full bike from a shop and getting worse prices than I could get per component from somewhere like CRC or Wiggle (which aren't even that cheap) then I'd be a bit of a tool.

So, RRP issues aside, you're also saying you're 'not even charging labour'? Constructive feedback: it's not a custom build, you're charging RRP on every component on it (3 grand of trade?) and you want to act a martyr for the sake of what any reasonable shop would charge less than £100 to do if you just brought a bag of components in to them?

Point is, for £3,000 you can and should be buying a totally different animal from the one you're selling-personally I'd rather go to Mercian or Chas Roberts and get a genuinely custom specced frame in my choice of tubing from a renowned artisan frame builder's, finished in my own colour way, and I'm pretty sure it would cost a damn sight less even with equivalent group, and most importantly it would ride better than a £300 cromor frame too.

tl:dr more than welcome to put your response out there but i don't see why we should be criticised for raising very valid points about the cost of your builds (which ultimately is as much a feature of your branding as anything else).
It's a competitive market out there and people have a right to discuss what represents a good buy or not.

Whole bike pricing is usually frame+groupset+wheels, everything else free. And whole bike street price needs to reflect frame+groupset+wheels street pricing. Well, for people who have a clue, anyway. The thing is, the Foffa brand strategy is all about exploiting punters who don't have a clue, and aspirational luxury pricing is a valid attack on that market sector, so slapping a price tag on the build is more about persuading them that Foffa does £3.5k bikes and hoping some of that cachet will rub off on the £700 ones.

^^ yes

^ and yes. Many luxury brands start out this way.

hiding behind made up usernames on forums like this one

Real names are made up, too, you know. :)

• Foffa Columbus tubing lugged DB frame RRP £300 (if anybody knows of anybody that offers a Columbus tubing lugged DB frame for that money let us know!)
  
• Tifosi 1" Carbon Road forks RRP £119.99
  
• Miche 1'' headset RRP £19.99
  
• Deda UltraCarbon stem RRP £43.99
  
• Cinelli Vai XL Shadow handlebar RRP £29.99
  
• Deda bar tape RRP 5.99
  
• Campag Chorus groupset RRP £1254.99
  
• Campag Chorus chain RRP £41.99
  
• Miche SuperType seatpost RRP £55.99
  
• Fizik Antares Braided saddle RRP 269.99
  
• standard Foffa pedals RRP £19.99
  
• Campag Bullet Ultra 80 wheel set RRP £1317.99
  
• rim tape + inner tubes RRP 5.99 x 2
  
• Vittoria Zaffiro tyres RRP 14.99 x 2
  
  

So the total would be £3522.85

This list is making me angry, all those prices are far too high.. For example a complete Chorus group, including chain is about 815 euro's.

WillPalmer. Thanks!

Apollo and Ed Scoble I appreciate that you use real names.

Oliver Schick: Indeed. But Dani F0ffa is the real Dani F0ffa!

Apollo: quite a few people prefer the feeling of a steel frame as opposed to Carbon. At the end of the day it's about giving people a choice to choose what they want to ride.

MDCC Tester, I would be really curious to know which are the inelegant component choices that Foffa is offering. I would have thought that offering all the Shimano, Campagnolo group sets and wheel sets, as well as brands like Brooks, Fizik, San Marco, and Miche would be suitable, but you don't seem to agree.

Edscoble, I am not asking you to take my word for it but at least don't keep slagging genuine businesses off if you don't know the facts.

über_grüber, You have some valid points about pricing and we are not in the position to compete on the buying power of people like Wiggle etc.. who can offer much larger discounts to those that want to buy the parts and do it themselves. The Bullet wheelset trade price from the Campagnolo UK distributor is £713 + VAT and shipping = £870, so our business wouldn't last very long if we were to make a 10% profit on our products. The same applies with the Chorus whose trade price is £614.5 + VAT and shipping = £752.4, so if you find it for an extra £75 then keep supporting online retailers which are the ruin of bike shops. You are probably aware of 'the Rules' and here is Rule 58: (http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#58)

"Never buy bikes, parts or accessories online. Going into your local shop, asking myriad inane questions, tying up the staff’s time, then going online to buy is akin to sleeping with your best friend’s wife, then having a beer with him after. Online is evil and will be the death of the bike shop. If you do purchase parts online, be prepared to mount and maintain them yourself. If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help."

You then need to take into account the tools and skills to build the bike and if you have all that already and want to save the cost of paying a shop to do it for you then that is of course always your choice.

Nutsjesmoar, if this list based on the recommended prices from the distributors is making you so angry then I would love to work with you to ensure I can get better prices cause 815 euros for a chorus group set with chain is less than what I pay at trade price! If you know a way to get those prices then come in for a chat and lets see what we can do. In the mean time I will raise these prices with my suppliers and see what they have to say.

So to conclude, everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is not contextualised the fact that some of you keep repeating that there is always a cheaper option out there, because you seem to forget we are a business after all, and provide a service for those that don't have the hours to search for good deals on the internet, neither the knowledge nor the tools to build their bike safely. On top of that we dont do off the peg bikes, we offer a huge number of options which requires us to invest a considerable amount of money on stock compared to some other brands. If you think you can do better than us I suggest you try and run your own brand and then realise all the expenses and hassles that come with it.

We appreciate that some of you have pointed out better rates online and we shall be talking to our suppliers to explain the huge difference in the rates. In the mean time we will continue to listen and respond to your feedback. Much appreciated.

Dani

Can't beleive you just quoted "the rules" ... Bikeradar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Chorus group: http://www.bikesnparts.nl/campagnolo-chorus-groep?utm_source=beslistslimmershoppen&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=beslist&utm_content=default

I'm sorry, I said euro's meant pounds. Still less than the 1300 pounds you're saying.

Dani, I admire your perseverance to protect your brand but the bottom line here is that the bike is still an over priced piece of tat!

And I know about the fact that internetprices differ a lot from retailprices, but this difference you're saying is just too big..

Can't beleive you just quoted "the rules" ... Bikeradar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

who wants to see if his bikes adhere to the rules?

Edscoble, I am not asking you to take my word for it but at least don't keep slagging genuine businesses off if you don't know the facts.

Like I said, the day we'll stop seeing poorly assemblies Foffa bicycle being rolled up in our shop for some tweak and what-not, is the day I'll start to believe you.

the problem may just be the thousands of death traps they have sold already, maybe the new ones are ok

Quite likely, some are old, some are new.

Even so, I don't quite trust his mechanic still.

Again, Danni, you give people a lot less credit than they are due.

It seems you market bikes for fashion conscious people who don't know arse from elbow and that coming on here to 'get feedback' is really about being very conscious that this thread is no.3 on a google search for foffa, but the point I was making is that the price tag on that bike is fucking stupid from any angle you look at it, and that in attempting to justify it you had to quote massively inflated 'RRP' prices on EVERY COMPONENT, which is not realistic when buying a complete bike from any other retailer be it Brixton Cycles or Evans.

So to simplify it: anyone who knows anything about bikes and has 3 grand burning a hole in their pocket would not buy that, and if you don't know this then there's an issue.

And also-you accuse me of killing independent retailers because I quote internet prices?
I accuse you of doing far better in that regard as you are selling a product at a 'bespoke' boutique price when (as I pointed out before but you chose to ignore) for the same cash you could get a fucking incredible custom build from any number of independent workshops based in the UK that I'd be happy to support and aren't just about spanking out colour co-ordinated builds to sell to card-happy junior architects. Every pound spent with you is a pound not spent elsewhere, be it independent retailer or no, and I daresay from what I've seen on your website that elsewhere the same pound would buy a lot more.

You can moan about workshop costs and yadda yadda but at the end of the day the world doesn't owe you a living and you are being quite fairly judged on the products and prices on your website, and if your business model won't allow you to be more competitive then you need to question how sound it is and change it accordingly.

I'm sorry if you find this incredibly unfair but I think you've got a nerve trying to come on here and play Mr Reasonable as if we're a bunch of mugs who can't recognise a shit deal when we see one.

Fair market price is what people will pay - that's good business.

MDCC Tester, I would be really curious to know which are the inelegant component choices that Foffa is offering.

Miche Supertype seatpost on any bike is a sign of stupidity which consigns it to the anti-porn thread immediately. Even if it didn't have a, perhaps undeserved, reputation for fragility, it is hideously ugly and worse in every respect than a Kalloy SP248 which retails for about ¼ of the price.

Bullet 80s on that build would be indicative of a massive surplus of money over sense if anybody bought it. They have their place, but your bike isn't it.

Zaffiros. Really? Have you actually done the maths? You could save enough Watts in rolling resistance by fitting Diamante Pro Radiales for only about £10 extra per tyre to make Scirrocos faster than Bullet 80s, saving your customer £1000. Given the likely customer profile of anybody who would buy that bike (MAMIL attempting his début Sportive), something a bit lighter and freer rolling albeit with a bit of an aero penalty is almost certainly the way to go, he'd get round faster and not end up in a ditch at the first sign of a crosswind.

The problem with you using rule 58 is you are a business, not a person.

Please try and act like one.

• Tifosi 1" Carbon Road forks RRP £119.99
  
• Miche 1'' headset RRP £19.99
  
• Deda UltraCarbon stem RRP £43.99
  
• Cinelli Vai XL Shadow handlebar RRP £29.99
  
• Deda bar tape RRP 5.99
  
• Campag Chorus groupset RRP £1254.99 Bikediscount.de price £860.04
  
• Campag Chorus chain RRP £41.99 CRC price £30.99
  
• Miche SuperType seatpost RRP £55.99
  
• Fizik Antares Braided saddle RRP 269.99 CRC price £144.99
  
• standard Foffa pedals RRP £19.99
  
• Campag Bullet Ultra 80 wheel set RRP £1317.99 CRC price £1164.99
  
• rim tape + inner tubes RRP 5.99 x 2
  
• Vittoria Zaffiro tyres RRP 14.99 x 2 CRC price £7.99 x 2
  
  
  

If you cannot compete with CRC etc on price then you need to change suppliers.

Possibly to CRC etc.

Just buying the few items I've quoted prices for from CRC and Bikediscount.de and the rest at full retail* would give you a total cost of £2835.90.

*why the fuck you - as a business - would buy anything at "full retail" is beyond me. I've worked in bike shops, I know how easy it is to set up a credit account with suppliers like Chicken and Madison and get things for much much less than you're quoting and on 30 day (or longer) terms.

You're either buying stock at retail prices, which makes you a total mug or - as I suspect - you're taking the utter cunt out of us, your customers and to an extent, yourself if you think that this business model is going to work.