Foffa Bikes

The question regarding the bendy bike and how nice it is, surely comes down to price.

After my little experiment taking the price of another model to £819

I guess for the equipment level on that, if it was priced around £250-300 would that be about right?

VanUden and Tester, before falling into grand debate about the quality of the bike...

how much does it cost?

Even if it's £75 it's still a pooper

Pain is arguably an indication of excessive discomfort. So if discomfort can be measured objectively then so can comfort.

Pain isn't "an indication of excessive discomfort", it's a neurological and then cognitive reaction to specific physiological reactions to certain types of stimulus. Also, comfort is not the same as absence of discomfort.

When it comes to comfort, different subjects will respond entirely differently to identical stimuli, e.g. variation in saddle shape. This is what subjective means; it has nothing to do with getting subjects to report their feelings accurately.

^^^ Really depends on what the frame's made out of. This will be the largest determining factor in price and desirability. Unless your name is Rob.

The frame is not going to be made out of anything special lets be honest here.

at best 4130, most likely plain gauge steel.

Even if it's £75 it's still a pooper

Pooper or not, it strikes me at £75 you could still split it, sell on, and make handsomely more dollar than you ever would selling all the hot air from internet bitching. But not £819.

Nowt wrong with value for money. The problem exists when shysters try to cash in on some "scene" by over-egging aesthetics in favour of functionality, reliability and repairability.
Which this bike might be.

It's definitely a bike for monkey shaggers* though

*© Tom Baker

It's a fair point. I love putting bikes together, and have wondering how I could make it financially viable to build and sell vintage bikes, even at break-even, but I've been thinking of how much I would be willing to pay for such a bike and it doesn't really work. I hadn't thought of charging £500+ and selling to ignorami with rich parents/credit card. I guess that might work, but would also make me a dick. No thanks.

When it comes to comfort, different subjects will respond entirely differently to identical stimuli, e.g. variation in saddle shape. This is what subjective means; it has nothing to do with getting subjects to report their feelings accurately.

OK, so if a carefully selected group of people were tested, initially subjectively, to ask them their response to a series of stimuli would it not be possible to ascertain their responses in terms of whether or not they were 'comfortable'? For example sitting on a series of different size and shape bicycle frames and pedalling for a set period of time.

During these tests their brain waves could be measured to identify levels of activity in different areas, blood could be taken afterwards to check for levels of endorphins, prostaglandin, or any other chemicals that may be relevant. Once there was an archive of info there would be common factors occurring within that data. What had started out as subjective could become objective if treated objectively.

My point is that anything can be measured objectively it just depends on how you go about measuring it.

Didn't you judge the comfort level of the bike on looks alone?

I personally find upright bikes less comfortable and prefer to counter balance weight using a drop bar position and removing weight from shoulders and arms. However subjective that is...

Didn't you judge the comfort level of the bike on looks alone?

I personally find upright bikes less comfortable and prefer to counter balance weight using a drop bar position and removing weight from shoulders and arms. However subjective that is...

No, what I actually said was "would very likely give an incredibly upright, comfy, riding position". It's entirely possible that it would be comfortable to ride. However, we'll never know until lab tests are carried out. Alternatively people might well ride them and find out for themselves.

If you don't think you like sherry trifle but have never tried it. Do me a favour and grab a spoon.

Really? This whole debate is so pointless! That bike looks like a pile of wank! There are stacks of better looking bikes out there that will offer a similar riding position without looking like a bag of cock.

My point is that anything can be measured objectively it just depends on how you go about measuring it.

Possibly, by sufficient observation of physiological markers, one could determine that subject A responds more positively to an SLR rather than an Arione, and that subject B responds more positively to an Arione rather than an SLR. Or you could just ask them. That still makes saddle comfort a subjective matter.

sub·jec·tive [suhb-jek-tiv]
–adjective

1. pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual.
   

One might even be able to take measurements of the pelvic area and other material characteristics of the cyclist and predict with unerring accuracy which of the two saddles they would find more comfortable, but it would still be subjective, i.e. you would get different results for different subjects.

Possibly, by sufficient observation of physiological markers, one could determine that subject A responds more positively to an SLR rather than an Arione, and that subject B responds more positively to an Arione rather than an SLR. Or you could just ask them. That still makes saddle comfort a subjective matter.

One might even be able to take measurements of the pelvic area and other material characteristics of the cyclist and predict with unerring accuracy which of the two saddles they would find more comfortable, but it would still be subjective, i.e. you would get different results for different subjects.

However if you took that data to manufacture a new saddle devoid of any live testing you would objectively be manufacturing something that you knew to be comfortable for a majority. Not everyone would find it comfortable, granted. Although there would be a majority that would based on measurement and objective, quantifiable data, that had been gathered in a scientific manner.

I don't believe things are as black or white as you're making out. Certainly not by dictionary definition. A great scientific diagram of 'cross-over' the Venn diagram is a visual representation of exactly this. Certainly when it comes to things like probability - the 'belief' that something will or has occurred.

you would objectively be manufacturing something that you knew to be comfortable for a majority

No, you would be making something which your model predicts will be comfortable. Unless you're just making a direct copy of an existing product, all your measurement based on existing models may or may not be useful - you might have just accidentally measured only those parameters which reliably predict for comfort on existing product, but have missed some vital aspect which is only shown up by the failure of your new product in testing.

Jesus christ guys, let it go.

Tl;DR

No, you would be making something which your model predicts will be comfortable. Unless you're just making a direct copy of an existing product, all your measurement based on existing models may or may not be useful - you might have just accidentally measured only those parameters which reliably predict for comfort on existing product, but have missed some vital aspect which is only shown up by the failure of your new product in testing.

A prediction based on objective measurement. Testing would have to be an integral part of the entire process. And measurements, data gathered, adjusted accordingly. Hypothetical of course but it is possible to treat something as subjective as the creation of 'comfort' in an objective way. Major manufacturers do it every day.

I too, was wondering how it rides.

I designed a bike to be somewhere between a classic british path racer and a dutchbike (it never went into production, unfotunitly) and I this bike has a fe of the elements I avoided. Namely I feel that the curve of the fork/angle of the head tube needs to be balanced with more of a sweep on the handle bars, but this is just my feeling. I would be happy to ride it to see if I'm wrong, sometimes it does take a ride before you understand what the designer was going for.

it does kind of look a bit like a pug, though.

I think rpms interpretation both looks better an would sell better, in foffas intended market of Hipsters.

Sorry Nhat but you're not actually allowed to even contemplate liking it. Because this is against the wishes of 'lfgss-web-mob'. A group that fiercely protects its right to be a mass of individuals, with little or no time for anything unexpected or out of the ordinary :)

As we like to say here at WebMob's head offices - 'You can like anything that you want to as long as we like it too'.

I too, was wondering how it rides.

I designed a bike to be somewhere between a classic british path racer and a dutchbike (it never went into production, unfotunitly) and I this bike has a fe of the elements I avoided. Namely I feel that the curve of the fork/angle of the head tube needs to be balanced with more of a sweep on the handle bars, but this is just my feeling. I would be happy to ride it to see if I'm wrong, sometimes it does take a ride before you understand what the designer was going for.

it does kind of look a bit like a pug, though.

I didn't say I like it, and I hope most people realize that I do and say what I like, on here and in real life.

I just said I was interested in how it rides, personally I think it looks a bit like it's had it's nose pushed in, but for me looks are not the most important thing on a bike.

There's a big list of fails. Including quite a few technical issues. But I cant get past the white spokes.

White fecking spokes!

I like the look and idea of the frame, just not the build.

I like lots of other people like the way traditional track frames raise you when riding in the city. Hence why one of my bikes is an old track frame with risers. The idea of having a longer headtube makes sense if the handle bars are going to be higher. Also having some sort of sloping TT is practical - it's not just about weight and torsional stiffness.

Just so we remember what the actual version looks like:

I was simply pulling your leg by being facetious about the fact that so many here bemoan bandwagons yet fall over each other to jump on any of the forum's construct...

I didn't say I like it, and I hope most people realize that I do and say what I like, on here and in real life.

I just said I was interested in how it rides, personally I think it looks a bit like it's had it's nose pushed in, but for me looks are not the most important thing on a bike.