Foffa Bikes

I preferred this:

I'm off to make a bacon roll

Object; there's no mystery about it. Danni Foffa e-mailed people asking them to leave their comments here. See Teenslain and Horatio's comments up there somewhere^. Whether or not that is underhand or just good PR to balance out the criticism is another question but I don't think we can say the comments are necessarily insincere just because they were prompted in the way they were.

I think we have to see foffa bikes for what they are, and their customers as well.

They are a cheaper option, seems to be a good entry point into fixed / ss, therefor the owners, I assume, aren't that knowledgeable when it comes to bikes. If they were, they would quite likely build up their own conversion / track frame no?

So, as i understand it, for people that doesn't know that much about bikes, you get great service and a decent bike for the money. Since they do the bike quite cheap, you can't expect it to perform like a much more expensive option.

And if Danni takes even 10 minutes of his time to chat to a customer, i think they beat most high street bike shops when it comes to service and customer care. If you don't have a clue about bikes going into any bike shop can be quite daunting, so nice and helpful staff will go along way when it comes to customer service.

I also guess these bikes do much less miles than most, so there's no real need for high end components. That said, if they can't build them in a safe way, cheap or not, it's still dangerous as fuck, especially in a big city.

To what extent Em? Because you are basically questioning integrity. Had you been loaned/given a bike would you have compromised your integrity by giving it praise that you knew it didn't deserve? I'm guessing you are going to say "no, I wouldn't". And I would believe you; so I think REMOVED deserves the same respect.

It's not necessarily conscious giving of undue credit. People go easy on freebies, a fact cosmetic companies exploit when doing "research". Not a reflection on integrity.

Well, I am crediting REMOVED with enough self-awareness to avoid that. Anyway, it's not important really, Em is not having a dig like some others have had a dig in the past.
Would it be particularly churlish to disagree with your first statement?

I firmly believe that anybody who is given something for free will be more likely to like the product that they were given. That includes myself.

To typify the process involved when accrediting an item with worth/value;

Worth
Does any given item serve a purpose?
Does it peform it's intended purpose successfully?
Is the useable lifespan acceptable for its application?

Value
Is the initial cost acceptable?
Are the running costs acceptable?

The trick of all commodoties is to balance cost against quality.

Of course people are capable of applying common sense when reviewing an item and discounting the cost element, however, there is no notable way to take into account how harsly they have applied this logic. Have they over compensated? Have they under compensated? Have they just ignore it all together?

In thew case of Foffa tough, personally, the only reason that I would discount Wicksie's point of view is precisely because she is so vocal in her support of Danni. Something which I believe she is only doing as she feels compelled to due to her previous issues with the now irrelevant mechanic.

I would question, If I were to build a bike from my spares box and give that to someone for free, would they feel compelled to tell everybody how kind and generous I am and what a good bike it is?

Object; there's no mystery about it. Danni Foffa e-mailed people asking them to leave their comments here. See Teenslain and Horatio's comments up there somewhere^. Whether or not that is underhand or just good PR to balance out the criticism is another question but I don't think we can say the comments are necessarily insincere just because they were prompted in the way they were.
I responded to Astraonaut's reply to me before reading the rest of the thread.
At least it makes some sense of why all of the positive comments are from new members.

If you build me a free polo bike Em I promise to tell everyone that both it and the person who built it are cheap, dangerous, put together from ill matched and worn out parts and best avoided at all costs :)

Done.

Obba bikes: the champions' choice.

Tell me about it, I've been up all night.

You stay up for the solstice? It was pretty cool watching the sun rise over a big lake.

neg repped, reported and stabby finger-pointed-at-Skully-style

...
FYI Tomasito invented the Stabby-Stabby... Tsk, tsk, tsk...

@Will over Joe's shoulder: Yeah! [stabby pointy]

Would it be particularly churlish to disagree with your first statement?

I firmly believe that anybody who is given something for free will be more likely to like the product that they were given. That includes myself.

Then all I can say is, you aren't as much of an opinionated gobshite as me.

If someone gets given a turd for free, they won't be trying to tell people it is the tastiest snack in the kitchen. Not if they have any self-respect anyway. That is just a sure-fire way to make you look like a twat when people find out that you're talking crap.

OK, it might colour an opinion slightly. I might feel bad about rubbishing something too much because I liked the shop, the owner etc so I might be a little kinder in my words. But you're never going to get a rave review about a pile of shit just by giving something away for free. Or at least, you're not going to from anyone who places ANY value on their reputation.

Then all I can say is, you aren't as much of an opinionated gobshite as me.

If someone gets given a turd for free, they won't be trying to tell people it is the tastiest snack in the kitchen. Not if they have any self-respect anyway. That is just a sure-fire way to make you look like a twat when people find out that you're talking crap.

OK, it might colour an opinion slightly. I might feel bad about rubbishing something too much because I liked the shop, the owner etc so I might be a little kinder in my words. But you're never going to get a rave review about a pile of shit just by giving something away for free. Or at least, you're not going to from anyone who places ANY value on their reputation.
You realise that you've just proved my fucking point?

you aren't as much of an opinionated gobshite as me.

few are.

You seemed to be saying that you'd get someone saying nice things because they'd been given a freebee. I'm saying you might get a slight change in wording. But only slight.

HOWEVER...

None of the opinions of the people who liked the bikes were written in the manner of someone who was softening any blows or avoiding sticking the knife in too badly, they were just plain pleased with the product they had bought. Which is very different from being a little nicer about something you weren't 100% happy with cos you feel endebted.

So, logic says to me, that they aren't saying nice things because they've been "bought off".

So, logic says to me, that they aren't saying nice things because they've been "foffed off".

arf

.....Or at least, you're not going to from anyone who places ANY value on their reputation.

I understand what you are saying but I would guess that you value your reputation on this forum alot more than some of the people who have recently joined to sing foffa bikes' praises. It sounded a bit like a few people were being 'nice' about the bikes.
Basically, my concern is for this forum increasingly becomes a big advertising space....
Anyway, back to lurking...

Ah, feeling much better now, haven't quite been up to meting out divine justice in the last 24hrs. Must've been that curry I had for lunch for yesterday, never reheat rice a second time, people. Nasty business. Anyway, to the job in hand.

Once lucky, twice confident, and thrice dead.

That's all I have to say on the subject.

If you build me a free polo bike Em I promise to tell everyone that both it and the person who built it are cheap, dangerous, put together from ill matched and worn out parts and best avoided at all costs :)

I hope you would, if that statement was true. Why not?

We have a saying "Darowanemu koniowi nie patrzy sie w zeby" (or in German "Einem geschenkten Gaul schaut man nicht ins Maul") which means that you shouldn't be fussy where given something for free - never look a gift horse in the mouth?.
Companies and big corporations often exploit that trait. I see that every time I work at corporate events and exhibitions - mainly from pharmaceutical industry, where visitors (doctors) are being lavished with silly gifts only to enforce certain brand (and eventually prescribe pill A and not B which are exactly the same, but come with a different label).

We have a saying "Darowanemu koniowi nie patrzy sie w zeby" (or in German "Einem geschenkten Gaul schaut man nicht ins Maul") which means that you shouldn't be fussy where given something for free - never look a gift horse in the mouth?.

That's how I translate it, too.

You seemed to be saying that you'd get someone saying nice things because they'd been given a freebee. I'm saying you might get a slight change in wording. But only slight.

HOWEVER...

None of the opinions of the people who liked the bikes were written in the manner of someone who was softening any blows or avoiding sticking the knife in too badly, they were just plain pleased with the product they had bought. Which is very different from being a little nicer about something you weren't 100% happy with cos you feel endebted.

So, logic says to me, that they aren't saying nice things because they've been "bought off".
You are missing the point entirely.

I originally responded to a question by Wigan Will regarding my previous discounting of the opinion of a particular person who has been very vocal in with respect to this particular shop. Knowing some of the history and also the particular person involved I discounted their opinion as I view it to have been changed due to being afforded a free bike. I personally believe they wouldn't have purchased themselves. And would continue to not purchase should their current one spontaneously combust. I am talking about a very specific case whereas you're trying to generalise.

Additionally in response to your second paragraph, I couldn't give a fuck about the opinion of people directed to this site by Dani. They are not part of our community and their words are meaningless as we haven't got the faintest who they are or what their knowledge base is.

Case 1:If a prolific member of the forum went and bought a Foffa then wrote a review I'd value that over and above 50 from people whom I will never know anything about.

Case 2:If someone who'd been around for a few months and posted in other threads with some intelligence, bought a Foffa and posted a review I'd value that over and above the same 50 people signing up just because they got an email from Dani requesting that they do so.

Case 3: If a prolific member of the forum was given a Foffa bike and someone who'd been around for a few months and posted in other threads with some intelligence had purchased a Foffa bike I would accept the opinion of the latetr over and above the former.

Luke! I am your Foffa!!

Ding fucking dong! :O

Repped for sexy Darth Vaderette.

Looks like she needs a wizz.