Motorcycle and Scooter appreciation

^ By the way, the points above are not meant as criticism. Was thinking if you can prove them it could really help your cause. Best of luck with it.

none taken

They were satisfied by stop and buggered off, only to then go away and speak to MIB, come back to my workplace and charge me with no insurance. I was in shock and, after he had said that technically they could have impounded the vehicle, I was thinking of how this might have a bearing on matters should I take it further - so I replied no comment. I didn't at any point say it was a one off, simply that I had gone to work on it.

Does sound like they were scraping the barrel. If you can show that you don't use it for commuting (as you rightly said by definition means to travel to and from work 'on a regular basis') with say a rail card, Oyster record, etc. This would be a good line of defence. With regard to not saying anything at the time it's perfectly understandable that you were shocked when they turned up at your place of work having already gone away satisfied.

at the time I commuted by car - that was a one off because I had planned to move the scooter to a friends house but it was a loose verbal agreement and I was to call to see if his Wife was in later that day to do it - as it turned out I wasn't able to do it that day, my brief was excited by this point until I told him it was a loose agreement and I wouldn't have anyone say it was more than that on my behalf under oath

The receptionist at work said she would appear as defence if need be to state that I didn't regularly commute on that vehicle

alas, I feel a trouncing coming on

I'm pretty sure you'd still be covered to the legal minimum requirement even if you were commuting on a non-commuting policy - you'd just lose fire, theft or comprehensive cover. I don't think you have a case to answer.

That's the way it works when you say it's garaged - if it's stolen close to your home at night and it wasn't from your garage then they won't pay out.

yeah but i think plods (sorry if plod is derogatory term) point is that he wasn't insured to be driving/riding for that journey. the same as if i was caught taking part in a hill climb race or similar. insurers would say i am not insured to do it and policy would be voided if during the process something happened. this would then leave me open to prosecution for riding with no insurance. my guess.

sorry if i missed something

my solicitor has just sent me this:

"As I discussed with you on the 25th, there are 2 potential lines of defence in respect of this matter. The first is that, as matters stand, the Crown will not be able to establish that you had a lack of entitlement to drive without relying on hearsay evidence. If the Crown does not realise that it has that deficiency in its case, then on one view the case might be “thrown out” at the close of the Crown evidence. If that is unsuccessful, then a second, albeit much weaker, line of defence is that you were not using your motor scooter solely for the purpose of travelling to and from your work that day and accordingly you would have been covered by your policy of insurance. Given the terms of your certificate of motor insurance, I am not confident that the second line of defence would be successful. As matters stand, my view is that your best prospect for success is that the Crown do not lead sufficient admissible evidence to establish a prima facia case that you were not entitled to drive the motor scooter under your certificate of motor insurance."

in other words if they can 'prove' that any 3rd party liability would be negated by my lack of commuting cover, I am screwed

its a shame there wasnt a scooter garage nearby that you could have been taking your scooter to for it to be given a serviced hence your reason for riding it into work that day otherwise you would have ridden your bicycle as usual

at the time I commuted by car - that was a one off because I had planned to move the scooter to a friends house but it was a loose verbal agreement and I was to call to see if his Wife was in later that day to do it - as it turned out I wasn't able to do it that day, my brief was excited by this point until I told him it was a loose agreement and I wouldn't have anyone say it was more than that on my behalf under oath

The receptionist at work said she would appear as defence if need be to state that I didn't regularly commute on that vehicle

alas, I feel a trouncing coming on

Don't downplay it by saying it was a 'loose' verbal agreement. A verbal agreement is a verbal agreement. Surely you could get a letter / note from your friend to say that this was what your arrangements were?

If you commuted by car where did you park? Anything that could be used to show you were commuting by car?

Nonchalant show-off gets nailed by hi-res eye in the sky.
Except he kind of doesn't.

He also will be forced to take a motorcycle safety class or sell his bike.

McDonah continues, "I'll probably end up selling the bike. There's this bike I want. It's a little bit faster. I'll sell it, get that bike."

Really learnt his lesson there, although I personally couldn't/wouldn't stand on the seat pulling wheelies at 120mph if I did I would at least wear leathers

You'd honestly be shocked at how many 170mph+ bikes are ridden around SoCal in regular denim and bare arms. It's mental.

This insurance stuff seems so..umm...tenuous?

I don't have commuting on my policy, it was going to almost double my premium.

My gf and I work in the same building, sometimes if I'm off I'll run her to work then take the bike out for a spin, that doesn't violate my policy right? Because I'm not working so I'm not commuting?

But if I run her to work on a day we start at a similar time then go to work myself then I am violating my policy?

My workplace comprises many things, one of which is a gym, I can ride to the gym on my day off and not be violating my policy, I can ride to and from the gym in the morning when I'm working a backshift and not be violating my policy but if I ride to the gym in the morning then start a shift straight after then i've violated my policy? Or do I only violate when I ride home?

What if I ride into town in the morning, do some shopping or banking or meet a friend for coffee etc then catch a train from town to work and then another train back to town after work and ride home from there? What if I ride to the supermarket that's a 5 minute walk from work and pick up a few items then walk to work then walk back to the supermarket carpark and ride my bike home - if it's not been stolen?!

Commuting added a quid or two to my policy. I think you need to shop around.

I did. I found policies where adding it only added a few quid but those policies were a lot more expensive to start with.

I think I'll be changing provider next year anyway as I don't have foreign cover either.

Insurance is tenuous but bear in mind that insurers will look for any loophole to avoid paying out. For the police to be using those loopholes too is a worrying trend.

Commuting is a journey you do to and from a fixed place of work. I don't think it matter how you normally do the journey - what matters is that you do the journey and if you only ever do it once on the bike and you don't have commuting cover - then you aren't insured for that journey.

So if the purpose of that journey is going to work then it's commuting. If you are using the gym, or using the work car park to go shopping etc then it isn't. If as suggested above the purpose of the journey is to drop the bike off for a service and then you walk to work from the bike shop etc then again you have an argument it wasn't commuting.

Bear in mind also that if you ever use the bike to go to meetings etc (ie not to your single place of work) then you need business use cover as well. If you've ever made a mileage expenses claim then you need business use cover.

Unless like me you work for a company which arranges its own business use cover for employees using their private vehicles for work purposes.

Didn't say you had to pay for it ;)

Thinking of buying an old triumph for me and the missus to potter about on. She hates pillion on the gsxr (can't blame her.) I hate that we go everywhere by car as a result.
Thought about one of the new ones but they're so fat and heavy I don't see the point.

Nahhhh I reckon 71-79 Bonny as the Oil in frame models are dirt cheap here.

Talk me into / out of it!

Thinking of buying an old triumph for me and the missus to potter about on. She hates pillion on the gsxr (can't blame her.) I hate that we go everywhere by car as a result.
Thought about one of the new ones but they're so fat and heavy I don't see the point.

Nahhhh I reckon 71-79 Bonny as the Oil in frame models are dirt cheap here.

Talk me into / out of it!

If you enjoy spending much of your time tinkering with tools and fixing stuff rather than riding go for it.

Insurance is tenuous but bear in mind that insurers will look for any loophole to avoid paying out. For the police to be using those loopholes too is a worrying trend.

Commuting is a journey you do to and from a fixed place of work. I don't think it matter how you normally do the journey - what matters is that you do the journey and if you only ever do it once on the bike and you don't have commuting cover - then you aren't insured for that journey.

So if the purpose of that journey is going to work then it's commuting. If you are using the gym, or using the work car park to go shopping etc then it isn't. If as suggested above the purpose of the journey is to drop the bike off for a service and then you walk to work from the bike shop etc then again you have an argument it wasn't commuting.

Bear in mind also that if you ever use the bike to go to meetings etc (ie not to your single place of work) then you need business use cover as well. If you've ever made a mileage expenses claim then you need business use cover.

Check out the definition of commuting. It's not a single journey it's a habitual series of journeys to and from a place of work. How many journeys it requires to make it commuting would be down to the judge on the day and the evidence he or she had to consider.

I'm relatively happy tinkering...I'm not going to sell the gsxr anyways so this is very much second bike / occasional status.

Decided dearth of flat seated bikes with character. I'm not a fan of the old air cooled jap stuff. Like the way it looks, but a bit to much of the supertanker about them for me.

Other suggestions will be gratefully considered.....

A new Guzzi V7 Special?

I'm relatively happy tinkering...I'm not going to sell the gsxr anyways so this is very much second bike / occasional status.

Decided dearth of flat seated bikes with character. I'm not a fan of the old air cooled jap stuff. Like the way it looks, but a bit to much of the supertanker about them for me.

Other suggestions will be gratefully considered.....

Supertanker?! You've never ridden an XS650.