Motorcycle and Scooter appreciation

I have a hankering for a BSA Bantam so I can always scratch that urge later if I feel the need.

Dude, I strongly disagree with this. 20hrs on a bike, in controlled circumstances, with instruction is absolutely bugger all. You're the greenest of beginners after that. Also, the step up from a 60hp learner bike to a 120hp 765R is massive. I went from a 50hp RD350YPVS and two seasons club racing to a TL1000s and it fucking blew my socks off.

With ABS and traction control, you definitely could have a 765 as a first bike, I'd just debate whether or not you'd have more fun on something smaller to start.

This is a good video on this topic:

https://youtu.be/sDbWZiaUeDY?si=cFhkZ4Qia8HZ8Xu3

The TLDR is that most people, especially car drivers will tend to slam the brakes in an emergency and especially the rear because driving + foot pedals. You can out brake ABS quite easily on a bike without ABS by using a lot more front brake and being willing to lift the rear wheel. ABS will prioritise keeping the tyres on the ground and from sliding at the expense of stopping distance. You can stop in roughly the same distance with ABS as without if you use the brakes progressively rather than slamming them.
All that is caveated by saying this is only in a straight line, as soon as you add some corners or twisting evasive moves, ABS wins.

Learning to brake to the limit is an acquired skill. You've got to practice a lot before you'll be comfortable going to full brake, with the rear dancing around. ABS is incredibly clever as it reads real road conditions far quicker than we can. Bumps, patches of damp / gravel / oil etc.

if you are buying a new bike the run in period of 500 - 600 miles will give you time to adapt to the bike get used to it and get a feel for the handling.

i went from direct access to a cbr600fx |(110bhp). a day on a 125 then 4 days on a cb500 then picked up the new cbr. even below 6000 rpm it was still a blast and being quite a cautious person i didn't over rev for a few weeks. then the first service and access to 8,000->11,000 revs blew me away
scared myself a few times but nothing really dangerous. tank slappers are the worst feeling in the world, feels like you're gonna bin it for whats seems like an age then it settles. those were the scariest times on the new bike

With respect, at the start of the journey it was ok ;)

But that is from a burnout.

For me it's the rope attached to the swinging arm.

I'm not sure about abs, as that is my opinion. You should never be in a position to need abs. But things happen.

On my bike, I brake in the way I have been taught, and with the shiteness of brakes/tyres/surfaces I have got it wrong... a lot. Would abs have saved me...no idea.

Tho I have had a greater issues with target fixation and tiredness.

Didn't see that...poor obs

Try to back it in to a corner with a bike with linked brakes.

My learnt behaviour....

The FX was a nice bike, tho a honda. Also star ship acceleration compared to a cb5.

I still say get a bike set up for your static weight.

Also I don't believe you have had a tank slapper, the bike just had a shake. You cannot save a tank slapper IMO...by you I mean even the most experienced road racer will tell you that. Would you like a link to the TT tank slapper videos as the normal road surface and going insanely fast.

Speed wobble then I guess. Could be bad head bearings

You're a passenger for a proper slapper (fnar.) They're super violent and shit your pants scary! Acceleration wobbles or weave can be a bit disconcerting for sure, but they're not the same thing.

No judgement, people that come out with rest in the tank, use the rear brake blah... it is a ride it out and hope.

Having issues linking but look up TT tank slappers
This is a video to watch, not sure how many times you can see the bars hit the lock stops
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1srcQMa_0&pp=QACIAgE%3D&rco=1
But we all must agree that he is a far far better rider than any of us.

Even the old XJ600 would slap at low speeds on cruise and decel. Could never work out why, but you had to keep two hands on the bars at all times.

Wouldn’t recommend.

What, all the internet advice didn't give you an answer ;) that was sarcastic. As I have read so much on causes and same as you nothing changed.

Allegedly (from the internet) you should be able to ride a bike with no hands and the bike should run straight. But I can't no hands ride.

My opinion, is that is frightening when it happens and the reaction to stiffen may make it worse. But hey have had many offs or drops where I have no clue what happened.

Those are the worst as I still think about why they happened.

I nearly went flying when walking along and slipping on a greasy puddle near a mechanics yard today. Sometimes we just get caught out no matter.

100% disagree. Unless you're a track veteran or a dirt fiend, 95% of riders aren't gonna beat ABS. Not a chance.
Learning tyre limit is something people dedicate a lot of time to. Most people aren't simply gonna do that.

@lynx Yes. ABS is better than the majority of us. Unless you spend weekends replicating Toprak, you're not better than ABS. This is a not even open for contention. The limit is NOT skill. The limit day to day riding is attention span. When shit comes out at you out of nowhere, the limiting factor is your reaction. Is ABS likely to save you more so than your skill and reaction time day to day? I'd say 100%

Was more making a comment on know it all's.

You haven't lived till you have ridden super dream 250 or 400 with the famously poor quality comstar wheels that flat spot and will never keep a straight line never mind cornering.

Nor a gt550 that had play somewhere in the shaft drive so would go one way when accelerating and then the other when backing off.

Just a character of some shitters

Learning tyre limit is something people dedicate a lot of time to.

Gotta say learning what a front tyre skid feels like and then learning to consistently control it has to be one of the most difficult parts of dirt riding. You just never want to lose traction when braking, and on the green lanes it’s a constant.

I still haven’t done a track day, but I have felt the rear step out enough times on the road to keep me honest. Massive respect for people who can control that and exploit it.

@chak - Absolutely, 100%. Could not agree more. Most riders don't scratch the capabilities of their bikes.

Improving requires confidence, because innate fear of crashing is a limit on learning experience. Getting better requires a series of little leaps of faith, with the knowledge that at some point you're going to fall off. Even when you fall, it's important to understand why, and recognise where you went wrong. It's always your fault, but as you reach the limit of the bike, the margin between fall / not fall goes towards zero.

Finding the real limit, be it threshold braking, trail braking, lean, acceleration off the corner involves scads of practice, in the hundreds of hours and a lot of falling off. The benefit is you're far less likely to bin it because you panic that you've gone into a corner too quick and go straight or grab a brake and crash. That's the single largest cause of single vehicle mobike crashes in these parts.

There is, I agree, a use it or loose it, or at least get fucking rusty element too.

I should have clarified what I meant by skilled rider, maybe pro-racer would have been a better phrase.

I personally hate ABS on a bike but Ive rode MX and stuff for years also over that time ive learned to ride within my limits

Don't have ABS on any of my bikes because they're all too old....ho hum.

It's a great idea though and I think it's good they made it mandatory for new bikes.

We are just talking, I don't like abs on cars or bikes. Have never set abs off when braking on the road, in a car when needed. Have set off abs when there has been a road surface issue. Having had the brake pedal pulse unexpectedly did more damage to my leg muscles. Note I'm the same person that provokes over steer in cars for fun. This was before drift was a thing.

As for abs on bikes, I like locking/slowing the rear wheel to kick the rear out and help me corner. Did not like abs on telelever BMW. With no transfer of weight to the front as a normal bike. ABS made that process hard to guage as I got it to kick in once, at box hill, and managed to let go of the brake as the pulsing was so unexpected.

Also I think that the stats were that the biggest killer of motorcyclists involved no other road users. Usually hitting road furniture. So how would abs help?