To all you 29er's out there!

Side on i think.

Slightly forward of side-on. I can tell by being able to see both dropouts.

You know, i think you might be right. I was just 'generalizing'. :]

If the geo is anything like my steel 456 it should be a great ride. Can't comment on the carbon etc.

Precision is required in such cases. We can't have Ed floundering over whether his viewing angle is exactly ninety degrees or not.

Ed knows these things.

If the geo is anything like my steel 456 it should be a great ride. Can't comment on the carbon etc.

It is, and as the the pic shows. Its built for strength and stiffness. The tapered head tube being a nice touch.

I (rightly or wrongly) compare MTN hardtails with snow boards when it comes to stiffness. I own a uber stiff snow board which is theoretically very fast. But it punishes all my little errors. Having rode a few cheaper boards last season I found a little flex helps an amature like myself, maintain pace and line, over the lumpy stuff. I feel a well made steel MTN frame does the same.

This could all be BFBS* though.

goes back to browsing uber stiff road bikes

(*Bike Forum Bull Shit)

Also the view of the carbon 456 is slightly from above. As the left drop-out is above the right.

You right on the snowboard front, but a well engineered flex pattern can make a very stiff snowboard a much easier steer, along with a torsional flex pattern that balances out the overall flex.

No doubt this applies to bikes aswell

A steel MTB frame would flex vertically by what, 1mm. Whereas the tyres will deform by 10mm or more.
I reckon you must be a right princess if you can feel the flex of a steel frame off road :-)

it's more likely the down tube to bb that is going to flex. if you rode a skinny steel hardtail with qr forks, square taper bb and cranks back to back with a known stiff alloy frame (like a SC chameleon) with modern external bb cranks, tapered steerer, bolt through forks and oversize bars
you would notice the difference even if the tyres were identical.

Maybe, but that is not a fair comparison. Why have crank and bar changes? Everything should be identical apart from the steel frame for a true comparison and in that case you would not notice the difference.
I currently have a stiff scandium frame and the scandium frame is more comfortable than any previous frame I have used (steel or alloy) for some reason. And that is a cross bike with external BB, 31.8 bars and very laterally stiff frame (i.e it climbs like a rocket)

Agree that the main flex would be down tube to BB but that won't make the ride better or more compliant over bumps, it will just flex more when putting power down.

I was'nt really thinking about vertical flex, or drivetrain flex as such. Just that a uber stiff carbon/alu frame seems to transmitt changes in direction or weight distribution sharply. Meaning its easier to ride smoothly (and therefore maintain traction) on a frame with a bit of give.

Its just a feeling a bike has (or maybe its in my head ;) ) when your pushing it on a slipper trail.

Just to confirm, it is all in your head :-)

The only area I notice a difference is the fork. I had a Cannondale 1FG with the rigid alu forks and it was really harsh. Yet I also had a Santa Cruz Chameleon with Pace RC31s and it was really comfortable. But then you haven't seen flex until you brake hard with a disc on a Pace RC31 - looks like the fork is going to snap every time you do it!

Getting there...

Everything should be identical apart from the steel frame for a true comparison and in that case you would not notice the difference.
.

you would notice the difference between a whyte 19 and SC chameleon (i certainly did)
both alloy but very different in construction and the way they ride.
i test rode 2 identical steel mtb frames one 853 and one 520 (parts were swapped one to the other). there was a difference between the 2, not because one was made from expensive steel but because that steel enabled the top and down tubes to be smaller o/d. this will affect the stiffness of the frame. (FWIW the back end was the same on both)

and that was with 2+ inch tyres squidging under neath you? Like I said, your a princess (in the princess and the pea way).

How much can a steel tube triangle actually move? What was the difference you noticed?

Getting there...

I rode a singlespeed one of these today and it was a blast. Really fun to ride.

how tall are you!?

I'm taller when I'm lying down.

Just over 6ft.

I'm hoping to have the drivetrain set up tomorrow. Can't wait to take it out for a spin.

I'm 6'8", tilover.

I rode a singlespeed one of these today and it was a blast. Really fun to ride.

Sam is a super helpful guy as well. Very quick to answer my stupid questions.

ben

shall we go out with west drayton mb club tomorrow morning?

Can't :-/

Bike's not ready. Haven't got the gears cabled up and still need to sort out cutting the steerer. The tires still have all their air still them though so we seem to have muddled through that process alright.