"Bicycles will be removed" - legal?

I'm pretty sure that before reading this thread I'd never heard the word 'distraint' before.

except its not up to you whether someone is prosecuted - its for the police or the cps

what's a "private prosecution" then?
as a second choice, a civil claim.

@almac68: If you get know the right people in planning, I'd be very interested to hear their thoughts. Thanks!

@carson, @Tiswas: Thanks for your considered opinions, digging up judgements etc, very enlightening.

@Tiswas: Had a brief Google for Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions. Does this apply to private signs? If it's not standard UK traffic signage, it doesn't count? Sorry if I'm being dim here.

Also, I found the quite interesting Ask The Police site. Like a FAQ for the law. Here's what they say about pesky vegetarian hippy cyclists:

https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/AlphaList.mth?letter=C&categoryid=133

Will have a look for Arthur v Anker. To be honest, I had no idea about case law and just went from first principles. I was aware however that the courts have taken a dim view of self-help for some time now. Often it is paint as taking the law into your own hands, hence the interest and feeling in this thread I imagine.

In all honesty, were a bike owner to issue proceedings against a remover, the remover would plead volenti and self-help in the alternative I imagine. Nothing like throwing the book at a problem (it also tends to reduce the chances of being sued for professional negligence)!

I am guessing you are a solicitor Carson?

Just to say in relation to whoever it was that mentioned costs. The likelihood is that the case would be a small claims case. As Carson mentions, civil claims up to £5k are dealt with in the small claims unless they involve defamation / some tenancies / Human rights points. In the small claims, costs are severely restricted. However the restrictions are valid as long as the parties acted reasonably. Testing the waters, so to speak, would likely raise arguments as to reasonableness.

@Winston

A private prosecution is a prosecution started by a private individual who is not acting on behalf of the police or any other prosecuting authority or body which conducts prosecutions.

Taken from http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/private_prosecutions/ which is useful for lawyers and non-lawyers alike.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prosecution[/ame]

There were private prosecutions in the Damilola Taylor and Stephen Lawrence cases AFAIK. Essentially, normally the Crown / the CPS these days prosecute in order to maintain law and order; but in private prosecutions an individual brings proceedings.

There used to be a blog where a guy went and locked different things to a set of railings near his work every week - toilet seat, car tyre, pot plant, etc. It all stopped when they took down the "bikes locked here will be removed" sign.

I once saw a guy come out of his bar, chop a lock, throw the bike onto the pavement and go back in. Bike was probably stolen, police come along and tell you to go to Brick Lane. Legal or not - bike gone.

Even if the police suspect the property owner they probably won't attempt to prosecute unless there is overwhelming evidence. Even then he hasn't committed theft so may not be deemed to be in the 'publics interest' to prosecute. Then you can take them to civil court. Ball ache and risky.

They can't stop illegal wheel clamping so they can't stop this.

oh - perhaps a misunderstanding here - bringing proceedings in the civil courts is not called prosecuting. you are prosecuted by the state in criminal proceedings - that said you can bring a private (criminal) prosecution subject to some restrictions although these occur relatively rarely as far as i know. if that is what you meant i appologise.

small claims court is civil...its simply the value of the claim (less than £ 5k) that means that the proceedings are subject to different procedural and costs rules.

Thanks! As you can tell, I know nuffin!

There used to be a blog where a guy went and locked different things to a set of railings near his work every week - toilet seat, car tyre, pot plant, etc. It all stopped when they took down the "bikes locked here will be removed" sign.

This is great.

We should have done this to a certain railing off brick lane where a resident damaged a bike locked to it.

There used to be a blog where a guy went and locked different things to a set of railings near his work every week - toilet seat, car tyre, pot plant, etc. It all stopped when they took down the "bikes locked here will be removed" sign.

www.whatshouldiputonthefence.com

sadly no longer there, was hilarious.

There's some way you can find stored old stuff isn't there... we need a neek to help ... Velocio?

the one time I had to deal with a security guard threatening to remove my bike (he had no tools) I told him that I would take him to court and that I would take the action against him not the company he worked for and if successful he may never be able to work as a security guard again....he backed off.

There's some way you can find stored old stuff isn't there... we need a neek to help

http://web.archive.org/web/20061114041049/www.whatshouldiputonthefence.com/index.php

Blessed are the neek, for they shall inherit the earth terminal.

What's worse then 'do not lock bike here' signs is the practice of large developments (I'm thinking of More London Riverside, on Tooley street, my least favourite corperate pisspot in all of London) where they 'clamp' bikes left on 'their' property, and charge £50 for release. They have a few tiny signs on some of their lamposts which they claim covers them legally, but I'm not sure where the limits of their authority are. They even 'clamp' bikes chained to lamposts right next to the road on Tooley street, but I wonder if this is their land? Sureley the pavement constitutes a public footpath or something. I suppose I'd have to check the blue prints to work out were their 'land' ends, the filthy cunts.

Luckily, they use very shitty locks to lock up your bike, so rather than legal challenges I'd recommend coming back with bolt cutters and dealing out some rough(ish) justice. This puts the ball firmly back in their court (legally, and they'd have to catch you first), and you could always argue that you thought it was a bike theif 'kidnapping' your wheels. enough rambles, but if anyone could shed light on this heinous pratice It'd be much appreciated...

That blog is wonderful, with it's turn of the century 'blur' graphic design and everything.

There are lots of issues around private land that appears to be public, and vice versa.

@ jonty ^ I would think that using another lock to 'clamp' your bike should be on a more solid legal footing than chopping your lock and taking away your bike which causes damage. Marginally less painful too as at least you know where your bike is?

Still shit mind.

What we need is more of those clever bike stands that clamp round street furniture retrospectively. I wish I had invented them.

these:

but they charge you £50 to have it released. i say chop it off. wankers. plus its very unclear where you aren't allowed to lock up, there's one sign (as far as i could see) on a small lampost near the starbucks, 20m or so from the road, saying 'don't lock bikes to this lampost' or words to that effect. It doesn't say 'don't lock your bike anywhere in this area, or we'll fuck your day up'. also, they'll even 'clamp' you if you free lock your bike whilst poppin in to aforementioned starbucks. They trie dthis to me once and I wouldnt let them, leading to a comical standoff. they really are scum.

The signs on more london/tooley st are a fucking disgrace. They are tiny and only on one of the prospective locking posts. I got caught out by them, but thankfully before they started fining.

But here is the thing. If they do as they did to me - simply putting their own lock on your bike as well as yours - rather than actually removing it, then what is to stop someone just chaining a junker outside their posh offices and just leaving it. See how long it takes them to get fed up of it.

Yeah I thought about doin that, can't be arsed as yet, but maybe if we assmble a collection of shit bikes and shit locks we could bore them into submission. More fun cutting their locks off and peddling off, smiling.

Does anyone know about where you can view plans/blueprints of architectural behemoths like more london so we can work out if they're even allowed to clap bikes chained to teh lamposts?

It's quite shocking that this is going on right underneath City Hall, really.

I reckon a campaign like that guy in Marylebone could be in order. Just start locking random things to [st]their[/st] our lamposts.

As it's private land, and they're rather anti-cycling, there's not much you can do without gaining their goodwill.

Southwark Cyclists have campaigned on this one for a while. It might be worth contacting them to find out where they're at if you're interested.

yeah, or a letter to Boris? the problem is, if its their land then they can basically do what they like, (excuse my rudimentary legalease), or at any rate, if they fuck with your bike th onus is on you to pursue a case, and thats expensive and scary. Which is why I'd suggest gurrila tactics every time. I'd be suprised if there was literally no public pavement on the north side of tooley street next to more london however. Perhpas town planners/architects can advise us?

There's a lovely still on the blog ... a small victory?