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This whole forum goes round in circles :s
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I think you are missing the point dorr, we have already established that it is much better to just get a cheap OTP or 2nd bike to get going many post ago. What pajamas is implying is that it is possible to build up a nice bike for £300-£500. I have to disagree with him because I'm finding it difficult to build a decent bike with that budget. I keep seeing post on this forum saying that "with £500 you can build a sweet bike, very nice bike..etc." which I find difficult to archive and misleading. And we have also established with edmundro that you can build a cheap bike and be happy with it. Maybe you will be happier riding a £700 bike, but that is relative. To me a very sweet bike would be the cinelli build I saw at tour de ville going for almost £3-4k.
Pajamas I didn't plug the figure out of thin air. I've been searching online shops trying to find best prices and taking into account shipping charges (buying from same online retailer would save on shipping but trying to balance price and shipping charges from so many online retailers to get best possible price is a headache) and the best I could come up with is around £620 and its a used frame and without compromising on totally crap components which will cost more in the long run. And the price I said is for new components. I haven't even taken into account tools cost if you were to build it yourself or mechanic cost if you let your lbs help you.
I'll be glad if you can help me spec up a steel frame bike for £300-£500 and be forever grateful. Heck, I'll even buy you a pint.
I wasn't trying to imply you were exaggerating things to yourself dude, I just think you've been led to believe that new retail is the only way. and I know the frustrations of building a bike and parts not happening quick enough. My first bike took six months to put together and for three of those months I was on the forum with gears and feeling like people were being rather generous letting me crash the party. But when the bills settled I brought the build in at £345; for that I got 20-year-old 531 road bike, stripped everything off except its headset, stem and front brake, and the rest was brand new except the saddle, which was a style option anyway. Okay, that was eighteen months ago, but the point is for that £345 I had sjsc fixed fixed to open pros, dt competition spokes, sugino rds, then still japan-only white tyres and a bio turbo saddle, all the shit I had planned for, and it wasn't like I was buying stuff off anyone on here (except the tyres). it's somewhere on the names and faces, it was a real nice build which I have since ridden 4,000 miles on and continue to ride daily. In other words it was no beater as far as I was concerned, and if you look at the spec I achieved you wouldn't come near it in the shops for even a hundred pounds more. But I was probably consciously buying - including scouring ebay nightly - for about five months. Over that time I learned and absorbed.
The thing is this forum is your most useful tool. But you can't absorb all the knowledge in even one month that's on here in terms of sourcing stuff and what not to buy at what price. the ebay thread alone is an almost unique feature for a forum that has a strong collector's contingent - most other areas people would be guarding their finds with secrecy. Here it's shared, we are definitely responsible for hiking prices in one sense, but there are also very knowledgable people frequently on that thread telling you when something stinks.. so you don't spend £200 on a unipac, for example, and watch it fall apart in the first two weeks you have it (which is no exaggeration at all).
I'm right in the last stages of a build at the moment and I still haven't got everything I need after two months - I figure it will be nearer three before I ride it out my front door for the first time. I reckon you need 3 months to build a bike that is as good a value example of what you want as you can reasonably get. This time I had no qualms in getting stuff off people on the forum - and yeah, I've got some good buys, but still bought new stuff and ebay finds. There is also the jumble route, which after the weekend I now know definitely starts reducing your retail costs.
New things are expensive, especially new things from japan at the moment, and you have to look at why you're being sold this idea of all new stuff. I don't want to go into my thoughts about OTP as I'm just not an OTP person, and not wanting to get specific and offend somebody by dissing certain manufacturers - lo-mid end new steel and alu frames are being sold as if they were particularly great, with a price tag to boot. They will be forgotten in a couple of years and have little resaleable value. At the same time there are steel frames out there that are going for a fraction of the cost of new ones which were made better and most likely will ride better. I would strongly recommend you ignore brand new frames if you want to build a good bike and keep it within £500.
as to me speccing it out - I hope what I've written shows you that I wouldn't even want to spec you a new bike, cos I don't think it's the best way forward. However, in the last three months, while trying to buy for the build I'm on at the moment, I can promise you I've seen:
new sugino rd crank + chainring - £69.95 (ebay)
ITM nos stem - £7 (Herne Hill jumble)
Archie Wilkinson speedway frame, track ends, endorsed by at least one good polo player - £99 (website)
Pair decent enough tyres e.g. rubino - £30 (online bike shop)
On-one fixed/fixed hub - £15 (go to thread about it to see the praise they get)
On -one front hub - £15 (website)
pair nos mavic rims, 32h - £25 (ebay)
tange headset - £10 (Herne Hill jumble)
shimano un52, 54 etc bb - £10 (online bikeshop)
alloy risers - £10 (ebay)
charge grips - £6 (evans)
caliper brake - £4 (ebay)
Lever - £7 (ebay)
nos Seat post - £7 (Herne Hill jumble)
izumi chain - £7 (Herne Hill jumble)what have I missed? spokes? At the moment that's standing at £323. spokes take you up to £355. You haven't even gone on the forum at this point. For £45, some of which is probably made up of beer to socialise with them, I assure you a nice forum person will help you put it all together, taking you up to £400.
You probably won't find the sugino rd crankset very easily again (then again there may be one right now on ebay) so to play fair I'll suggest a no-name crank I saw at Herne Hill on Saturday that at £35, and put with a Gebhardt chainring for £25, will be far far better than the unipac one.
Add another £100 to that for whatever you need to do differently to feel right (if it was me I would probably try and find a very nice late 80s columbus or Reynolds road frame for £150 and ditch the Archie Wilkinson) and I have still saved you two hundred, and if you want it to be it's all brand new, and it looks pretty good and it's going to see you right for a good few thousand miles.
the polo guys are a good example of the divide between the need for bling and the need for enjoyment. some of those dudes have had some of the nicest bikes on the forum at various points. ask them what they ride these days and most of them admit they enjoy their polo bikes most of all, and a lot of those were built out of shagged but good parts.
I hope I've been of some help and maybe this shows I really am fervent when it comes to this end of things. don't get me wrong, TdV, 14 and BLB all have gorgeous stuff and the last few weeks I've bought things from each, but I'm a long way off feeling comfortable about spending £1000 on a bike cos I can't afford it. For me, building to a budget is a part of the fun I don't want to lose just yet - the feeling you have got a bargain, the feeling you have been clever and sniffed out a good deal - they make your bike look even better the day it's finally built.
most of all, enjoy the build process.
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In the end it's a bicycle, a simple mechanical vehicle, it doesn't take much to tweak and adjust an 20 years old bicycle to make it run perfectly smooth and reliable.
same thing go with this, I've spend a bit more than I should, but at £440 building a shitty old bike into a brand new one in the space of 2 months is pretty good, it cost a bit more because I have a deadline of two months to get the bike ready, had I not got a deadline, I'd probably spend only £350 total.
from this £30 bike;
to this everyday town bike;
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ha ha!!
scoble you're like a victorian pimp with a kidnapped aristocratic child..
Ednoble
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£700?!?! Have you never heard of the Specialized Langster?
£700 will get you a generic 'custom built' bicycle, with a plethora of dull and oft seen parts, if you approach it in the way you seem to be.
I got this bike about 4 months ago for £460 off ebay.
Took it to armourtex for a respray, total cost £560.
For that I got gran compe hubs laced to very rare araya rims, sugino 75s with a messenger zen ring, DID chain, EAI cog, (repaired) LeveL frame, jaguar stem, B123 drops, Nitto Frog seatpost, and a chopped B17.
That's a bike slathered in NJS for less than your budget. Yes the parts are all used, some of them a bit scuffed, but it still works perfectly well.
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wot no spok?
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Actually it's only you that has 'town' bikes Ed... ;)
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it's entirely possible and quick to build a decent bike within that budget if you don't always buy new stuff.
+1
Everything I got was second-hand (it doesn't mean worn out - I got wheels which were fitted to a display bike in the shop for example) or NOS.
On the other hand, if I sell the the other track frame I will be left with brand new stem, bars, crankset etc. which I will have to sell. There's no difference between them and the stuff you get from the shop, apart from a bit of lithium grease or little scuff where they're mounted. Obviously I can't sell them for the full price, so the buyer should be more than happy. It's all about the patience and good research. I showed impatience regarding some component and now I'll pay for that :-)
From what I learned on this forum, the way to go is a good frame and if you need something quick - a heap of cheap parts which can be replaced later on. Or the other way. It a custom build, so every component can be replaced later on when you find a suitable part for a decent price.
Impatience breeds unipacks. -
Guys I'm not saying that 2nd hand parts are crap or that you must buy new stuff. What I am trying to say is "it is very difficult to build a new bike with new parts for anything less than £700" and I don't think that it is a ridiculous claim. Here is what I am saying.
1) It is very difficult to build a new bike with completely new parts for anything less than £700 for relatively decent bike with decent enough components. Actually I think I can do £600-650.
2) I'm not dissing anyone here that builds their bike using 2nd hand components, nor am I saying 2nd hand components are inferior.
3) YES, it is possible to build a bike for much less than £700 if you are not fuss about using a mixture of 2nd hand and new components(refer to point 2)
3) Want to get a bike asap? go get an OTP.
4) Want a custom bike asap? go to bike14, blb, brixton, condor..etc. And yes they are more expensive than your online shop for components. It like walking into PCWorld when you can get the same stuff cheaper online. Shops have a lot overheads, rent, wages and bills, thus you are paying that extra £.
For instance someone wants to get a bike quickly but find that OTP does not suit because he wants a unique bike for whatever reason. The choice that he have is to go to bike14, blb, brixton, condor..etc, and ask them to build a bike for him. Or he can spend sometime reading sheldon and londonfgss and start hunting down components.
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All the above is pretty clear after about 10mins of joining this forum. So what exactly are you trying to say?
You want a new custom built bike right now but can't afford it?
It doesn't matter what you ride at all, if you want a bike just get one, you're making a very simple decision very complicated. If you want a bike built to fit you perfectly whilst reflecting your persona then htfu and pay for one. -
He is right, in some ways about the 700 mark.
But if you are worried about cost, get an otp and be done with it. Heck, even the surly comes in at less than 700.
I do spend an awful lot of my time explaining to people who have decided that (although they posses no mechnical skills) they want to convert an old bike into a sweet fixie on the cheap. There is an awful lot of cost involved in this, and there is no promise that the result won't lead to a cracked frame or some proper pedal strike trauma.
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The long time spent on conversions is also a hidden 'cost' factor, although of course part of the fun and learning at the same time.
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Nice one! Looks sweet.
In the end it's a bicycle, a simple mechanical vehicle, it doesn't take much to tweak and adjust an 20 years old bicycle to make it run perfectly smooth and reliable.
same thing go with this, I've spend a bit more than I should, but at £440 building a shitty old bike into a brand new one in the space of 2 months is pretty good, it cost a bit more because I have a deadline of two months to get the bike ready, had I not got a deadline, I'd probably spend only £350 total.
from this £30 bike;
to this everyday town bike;
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everyday town bike lol
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About
14bikeco custom bike
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Well, we seem to be going in circles.
I'm gonna start another round: It is definitely feasible to get a nice bike for £450! Whoever says anything else is a liar!