JOL/Gurney Straps

Everyone's at it now...these look rather similar to JOL's...http://www.aurora-collective.com/

I think it might be time to post that email conversation I had with John prolly regarding straps....

James,

I just thought that it was odd that HF has been in development for over 8 months and the week that a picture drops on the intenet of them, everyone starts talking about a new form of foot retention. I've seen that thread on the LFG forums and it happened around the time that the first pictures came up on my Flickr. I immediately removed my pics and felt horrible. Jeremiah kept telling us to not put them online anywhere and we all kinda knew it was too late.

I see your point / perspective, now do you see mine? I felt some kind of responsibility to stand up for Jeremiah and Rob...

_j

--

John Watson
t. ******
Brooklyn, NY

[home] JohnProlly@gmail.com
[blog] www.ProllyisnotProbably.com
[flickr] www.Flickr.com/photos/johnprolly/

Next one:

Also, so you know, the pic of my bike up in the work stand is from April and we had the straps in January. The first few straps came online around February...

Not being a dick, just "wondering" if those pics hadn't leaked, would there be more brands floating around?

and the final one:

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:54 PM, <jamesdavis1985@aol.com> wrote:
[INDENT]Hi John,

Personally, the first thing I and anyone else I know saw of your straps were on that picture of your bike in the work stand, if there were any pictures leaked beforehand they were certainly unknown to me, sadly as you and Joel (JOL) can both see now, there are a lot of imitators out there who are happy to try and rip off the true innovators, to make a quick buck so to speak. Not sure exactly when "the pictures were leaked in February" but funnily enough you can read in this post here: http://www.londonfgss.com/thread16351-2.html Joel talking about his straps right at the beginning of February, at this point (if I remember correctly) they had already been in testing for around a month.
For the record I have seen all the crappy imitations knocking around, including the piss poor attempts at duplicating hold fast straps that some kid put up on trick track, LOL is all I can say, that did make me laugh!
***Oh and of course Chicago Wigs attempt to copy Joels straps, never seen such a blatant rip off of someones design in my life, but no doubt people will see them for what they are..... ***
You guys clearly have a good product in the Hold Fast straps, and although having not seen a pair in person myself, from what I can see the workmanship looks very good, and obviously they have undergone extensive testing,*** I hope you can appreciate that JOL's straps have had a similar amount of time/effort put into them in terms of R&D, and of are the first to bring to market "hardwareless", horizontal mounting foot retention. ***
To answer your main question, I personally think regardless of whether those pics had leaked, fixed freestyle/tricks whatever you wanna call it, is in such a progressive stage right now, and what with Polo gaining in popularity world wide also, I think this type of harder wearing/tougher foot retention would have been an inevitable step at some point.
Calling Chicago Wig imitators is fair enough, but it'd be nice if you showed a bit more respect to Joel considering they ripped off his idea, and he has dedicated as much time/effort to creating his product as your friend Jeremiah has, rather than holding him in the same contempt as Chicago Wig who quite obviously just ripped off someone elses product.

Regards
James

Johns Response:

Werd man. I'll un-link your straps. Sorry about all this.

:-(

_j

--

John Watson
t. ******
Brooklyn, NY

[home] JohnProlly@gmail.com
[blog] www.ProllyisnotProbably.com
[flickr] www.Flickr.com/photos/johnprolly/

[/INDENT]

I don't have an issue with Hold Fast straps, I think they are well made for what they are, I personally prefer JOL's straps but the point of this whole conversation was the innovators getting recognised for doing their thing, and the imitators and rip off merchants getting should get ripped to shreds wherever possible.
If you're going to buy straps from anyone, buy from the people that created these awesome bits of kit, buy from the people that spent months and months testing and perfecting them, because these are the people that deserve your cash.
Don't buy from the slimey creeps that saw something good and instead of putting in the hardwork that these guys have, decided to just rip it off and sell it as their own product!
RIPPING OFF PEOPLES DESIGNS IS NOT COOL.

^ +1

Can't wait for ma gurney straps

Seems to me that there is a lesson in Industry here, in that JOL came up with the idea, but it has taken him so long to get them out that competitors have been able to copy them and get their product out there before he has even had a chance to finish making his first batch - i am still going to wait it out for JOL's cos i think his will be the best product.

I was pretty involved in the snowboard industry in the mid nineties, and people were biting each others ideas left right and centre, but such was the speed equipment was evolving it was very hard to prove.

Ha, amazing. Yeah it has taken me a while, sorry all. Moving house and busyness at my day job has made these take longer than expected. However, I really appreciate that people have held on.
They are becoming ready right now and I have PM'd people in order on the list.
I have also been trying to sort out a larger run to fulfill the requests but have yet to get a sample that is good enough so I continue....

This is jokes though...

They are becoming ready right now and I have PM'd people in order on the list.

i'm delerious with anticipation!

1. Rod Munch
   
2. JonoMarshall
   
3. aufbruch
   
4. Buddha Fingaz
   
5. Dracula
   
6. porter7474 (pm'd earlier)
   
7. Vinylvillain
   
8. 
   
9. Timmy2wheels
   
10. BleakReference
    11.Casp
    
11. The_BMX-KId
    
12. Sol
    
13. oval (2 pairs, and far, far away from London)
    
14. Befixed (PM written)
    
15. philosovril, needs postage or a friend could pick them up at EHBPC if possible
    
16. Loop
    
17. Marc_77 (Newcastle, PM sent)
    
18. Sammy - Pick up from wherever in London - sorry dude!
    
19. nikuls
    21.Stein(need postage, pm coming)
    
20. Edmundro - can have cash money ready in about a week or two. Army green a possibility?
    
21. MonkeyDXIII
    
22. can_i_have_a_p_please_bob
    
23. overandout
    
24. jv
    27.hmmbutterscotch
    
25. Wannabe
    
26. nikT (possibly 3 pairs and not close to london at all)
    
27. Velonoir (I PMed you about this a day or so ago)
    
28. Ricky2Slicky
    
29. ctznsmith
    
30. Davey Mayhem (requested a bit ago)
    
31. niels.
    
32. twelve.
    
33. PISSED_UP_PISTA
    
34. roryeaglestone (in manchester)
    
35. Scrapper
    
36. nooms
    
37. PeteScotch
    
38. Something_or_other.
    
39. koai
    
40. mo-nochromatic
    
41. saffa
    
42. 
    
43. d-goods
    
44. nbodyfuckswtheJesus
    
45. moog
    
46. LdnGrrl (after stupidly pulling out on the 4th place) Black's fine.
    
47. MagnumPI
    
    

Sorry, but i've removed my name from #45. I've decided to buy some imitation straps instead, in an attempt to rock the boat!
(But really i'm just broke and cant afford to buy squat).

The following is just my opinion and supposition, please feel free to ignore me and skim over it all.

[INDENT]

RIPPING OFF PEOPLES DESIGNS IS NOT COOL.

Seems to me that there is a lesson in Industry here, in that JOL came up with the idea, but it has taken him so long to get them out that competitors have been able to copy them and get their product out there before he has even had a chance to finish making his first batch - i am still going to wait it out for JOL's cos i think his will be the best product.

Do you honestly think this current batch of designers are the first ones ever to have this idea? Platform pedals and straps have existed for years. I am sure someone have thought of doing this before but it takes more than the idea.

There are two things to bear in mind:

• The current vogue for trick riding and Polo means there is actually a market for this kind of strap (I doubt anyone would have predicted the Power Straps' resurgence).

• Both Jol and Jeremiah are more than just the ideas men, they also have the skills to make their ideas. I could have thought of this before either of them (I mean potentially, I'm not saying I did)but there would be no use moaning about it because I know I could never have put the idea into production.

Everyone's at it now...these look rather similar to JOL's...http://www.aurora-collective.com/

Superficially yes. Especially in the first photo but read the whole post.

"Since velcro straps are pretty comfy to ride with, but pretty expensive and mostly made for platform pedals, my girlfriend and i decided to make our own. High quality, but for a better price and of course fitting for road and track pedals."

Jol has already said that:

I think the straps will be too much doubled to go through sylvans, sorry.

So the Aurora straps do something which the JOL Strap does not. They could argue that their product is not aimed at the same market.

Also, you can clearly see that this design uses a metal buckle: One of the JOL Straps selling points is a total lack of hardware (so that, for all they look like Jol's from the top, the design is probably more akin to the Holdfast straps). I don't like the look of the junction between the strap and buckle on the inner side of the pedal. It doesn't look very substantial and that's where they will wear and snap: I think that by making the strap narrower to fit through road pedals they have made the design weaker.

I think the Chicago Wigg straps are hardware free and eerily similar to the JOL Straps but coincidences do happen. There are a finite number of solutions to the problem of foot retention and lots of clever folk all trying to solve it first. If anything, this scramble to claim who came up with the idea proves you've probably found the best solution.

As for ripping off the idea. What are you looking for? Recognition that you were the originator? A patent or a license on the idea? That only you can produce the straps (does anyone really think any of these people can produce enough to supply a global market?).*

When I wrote, "you," this isn't actually directed at anyone in particular, I didn't know what word to use (grammar fail).[/INDENT]

The bottom line is this: JOL Straps look ace, have the best name, no silly screenprinted logos and they are made in the UK (please support your local scene).

Ha, thanks Loop.

Yeah, I'm not claiming anything. It's just funny, and in hindsight I wish I'd looked further into protection but I think it is a difficult area.

Everyone is free to do whatever and hopefully other straps are strong as peoples safety is at stake.

I just need 10 arms like an indian god!

Unless you have a decent patent covering a well thought out product, this will always happen. Fortunately for JOL he has the support of the forum, and seems to be doing well for orders regardless.

Nice to see it doesn't phase you either dude.

Hi Jol,

Spoke to you before through email about getting a pair of these.
Can you put my name on the list/tell me if there are still some available.

Ta,

Ric (from 4416.co.uk)

1. Rod Munch
   
2. JonoMarshall
   
3. aufbruch
   
4. Buddha Fingaz
   
5. Dracula
   
6. porter7474 (pm'd earlier)
   
7. Vinylvillain
   
8. 
   
9. Timmy2wheels
   
10. BleakReference
    11.Casp
    
11. The_BMX-KId
    
12. Sol
    
13. oval (2 pairs, and far, far away from London)
    
14. Befixed (PM written)
    
15. philosovril, needs postage or a friend could pick them up at EHBPC if possible
    
16. Loop
    
17. Marc_77 (Newcastle, PM sent)
    
18. Sammy - Pick up from wherever in London - sorry dude!
    
19. nikuls
    21.Stein(need postage, pm coming)
    
20. Edmundro - can have cash money ready in about a week or two. Army green a possibility?
    
21. MonkeyDXIII
    
22. can_i_have_a_p_please_bob
    
23. overandout
    
24. jv
    27.hmmbutterscotch
    
25. Wannabe
    
26. nikT (possibly 3 pairs and not close to london at all)
    
27. Velonoir (I PMed you about this a day or so ago)
    
28. Ricky2Slicky
    
29. ctznsmith
    
30. Davey Mayhem (requested a bit ago)
    
31. niels.
    
32. twelve.
    
33. PISSED_UP_PISTA
    
34. roryeaglestone (in manchester)
    
35. Scrapper
    
36. nooms
    
37. PeteScotch
    
38. Something_or_other.
    
39. koai
    
40. mo-nochromatic
    
41. saffa
    
42. 
    
43. d-goods
    
44. nbodyfuckswtheJesus
    
45. moog
    
46. LdnGrrl (after stupidly pulling out on the 4th place) Black's fine.
    
47. MagnumPI
    
48. Rauri
    
    

Have cheekily added my name to the end as forms dropped out at 45, will PM JOL to make sure this is all good.

Imagine changing the idea slightly, attaching a rope to it and putting it on a surfboard?!
http://www.pitsurfshop.com/store/images/FCS_9ft_Surf_Leash_Knee.jpg
this will hopefully not get me edited off the waiting list...

Patents would be pointless unless you see yourself shipping literally thousands a year over an extended period. Enforcing one legally would be financially nightmarish also. It's a scene where hopefully people will support the guy that seems legit.

    1. Rod Munch

1. JonoMarshall
   
2. aufbruch
   
3. Buddha Fingaz
   
4. Dracula
   
5. porter7474 (pm'd earlier)
   
6. Vinylvillain
   
7. 
   
8. Timmy2wheels
   
9. BleakReference
   11.Casp
   
10. The_BMX-KId
    
11. Sol
    
12. oval (2 pairs, and far, far away from London)
    
13. Befixed (PM written)
    
14. philosovril, needs postage or a friend could pick them up at EHBPC if possible
    
15. Loop
    
16. Marc_77 (Newcastle, PM sent)
    
17. Sammy - Pick up from wherever in London - sorry dude!
    
18. nikuls
    21.Stein(need postage, pm coming)
    
19. Edmundro - can have cash money ready in about a week or two. Army green a possibility?
    
20. MonkeyDXIII
    
21. can_i_have_a_p_please_bob
    
22. overandout
    
23. jv
    27.hmmbutterscotch
    
24. Wannabe
    
25. nikT (possibly 3 pairs and not close to london at all)
    
26. Velonoir (I PMed you about this a day or so ago)
    
27. Ricky2Slicky
    
28. ctznsmith
    
29. Davey Mayhem (requested a bit ago)
    
30. niels.
    
31. twelve.
    
32. PISSED_UP_PISTA
    
33. roryeaglestone (in manchester)
    
34. Scrapper
    
35. nooms
    
36. PeteScotch
    
37. Something_or_other.
    
38. koai
    
39. mo-nochromatic
    
40. saffa
    
41. 
    
42. d-goods
    
43. nbodyfuckswtheJesus
    
44. moog
    
45. LdnGrrl (after stupidly pulling out on the 4th place) Black's fine.
    
46. MagnumPI
    
47. Rauri
    
48. Subsist
    
    

PM'ed earlier! Brup!

people speak shit. these look tech, hopefully work well and hey, local yocal. british style is where we should be supporting.

Been riding mine all day - and they definitely live up to the hype, so simple to use and install, can be swapped from one set of pedal to another in minutes, and hold you in nice and tight without making you fell like you are permanently atached - great work Jol, keep up the good work!!

tis great to hear someone giving a good responce... have got my flat pedals ready... hurry up JOL... please!

i want mine!!

even @ posn 46 i'm sticking with the jol's for all the above reasons. no rush...need to finish the bike first!

i want mine!!

why havent you got yours? you're no. 19 i thought the first half of the list got their's already? not good for me at 26 :(

tis great to hear someone giving a good responce...

I've gone to give a review a few times but I always delete them because they don't do these straps justice.

I've been using them for polo for a couple of weeks now and they're spot on. Not only are they the easiest bike-related thing I've ever installed, but once they're adjusted they stay adjusted. They really hug your feet and feel totally secure. I have absolute trust in them. Way better than toe clips/power grips/whatever. It's a different feel to clipless but it's one that I personally prefer for shorter rides.

Great product, if you're on the fence about getting some (and Jol will make more) then get involved.

RIPPING OFF PEOPLES DESIGNS IS NOT COOL.

unless it's medicine!