Spoke Size / Spoke Length Database - What size spokes do I need?

The centre of the frame, the centre of the fork, the centre of the hub are fixed (if undamaged). The position of the flanges can vary according to circumstances. A non-disc front hub would typically have both flanges equidistant from the centre line of the hub and the resulting wheel would not therefore need to be dished.

A rear hub needs to accommodate some sort of drive arrangement such as a freehub so the flanges cannot be equidistant from the centre line of the hub. The same would be true for a front disc hub where the disc mount must force the flange nearest to it to move inwards towards the centre line of the hub. The spoke line on this side of the hub then follows shallower angle to the centre line of the wheel than the other side. The wheel therefore is dished, albeit not so much as a rear wheel but dished nevertheless.

Otherwise use a non-disc front hub if you really want zero dishing. What's the prob with a bit of dishing anyway?

I can confirm that On-One hubs mate with Mavic Open Sport just fine using 294mm spokes... 3 cross

2 wheels laced, first one took an hour or so(first wheel ever). 2nd wheel just over 20 minutes.

Now I just need to true them... that's the part I dread. sounds so expensive in tools.

Here you go, i laced some up for the g/f bike last year (Zenith hubs)... 294mm should be fine :-)

On-one, zenith, formula - they're all pretty much the same.

Updated!

***** 32 Hole 3x Pattern*****

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Dura Ace HB7600 32h + Velocity Deep V = 280mm
Goldtec Track Front 32h + H+Son SL42 (Formation Face w/braking surface) = 264mm
Goldtec Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + H+Son Formation Face = 264mm
On-One Front Track 32h + Rigida DP18 (new style, not NOS) = 276mm
Planet X Pista Front 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Planet X Pista Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Zenith Track Front 32h + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm
Zenith Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm

**36 Hole 3x Pattern**

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Dura Ace HB7600 36h (double fixed) + Velocity Deep V = 276mm
Zenith Track Front 36h + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm
Zenith Track Rear (Flip Flop) + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm

**Other Patterns TBA**

Here you go, i laced some up for the g/f bike last year (Zenith hubs)... 294mm should be fine :-)

On-one, zenith, formula - they're all pretty much the same.

I know they're fine... I just laced them ;)

Sorry to dredge up the thread, but i wanna lace some H+son 42mm deep rims to some miche primato track hub and am completely new to wheel building. What spokes would i need to use?

http://lenni.info/edd/

.

Updated again, and again!

*** 32 Hole 3x Pattern***

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Campag Pista 32h + H+Son TB14 = 296mm (front & rear use same spoke length, note rear is slightly dished)
Dura Ace HB7600 32h + Velocity Deep V = 280mm
Goldtec Track Front 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Goldtec Track Front 32h + H+Son SL42 (Formation Face w/braking surface) = 264mm
Goldtec Track Rear 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Goldtec Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + H+Son Formation Face = 264mm
On-One Front Track 32h + Rigida DP18 (new style, not NOS) = 276mm
Planet X Pista Front 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Planet X Pista Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Zenith Track Front 32h + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm
Zenith Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm

36 Hole 3x Pattern

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Dura Ace HB7600 36h (double fixed) + Velocity Deep V = 276mm
Zenith Track Front 36h + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm
Zenith Track Rear (Flip Flop) + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm

32 Hole 2x Pattern

Dura Ace HB7600 32h + Velocity Deep V = 270mm

Front: Phil Wood High flange, Mavic open pro, 32h, X3 = 290mm
Rear: Phil wood HF double sided, Mavic open pro, 32h, X3 = 290mm

Please feel free to join in and and your own, or leave a slightly useful thread for anyone building the exact same thing I did.

This is according to the DT calculator.

Phil Wood HF / Mavic Open Pro / 32h / 3x / 12 mm nipples = 292mm front, 291mm rear

(with DT Champion 2.0 PG spokes)

edit: I've assumed a spoke hole diameter of 2mm in both cases, is this correct for Goldtec / Phil? Can't seem to find this information anywhere.

Now using the Edd calc selecting Phil Wood, front and Phil Wood, rear I get 292.1mm and 291.6mm for front and rear respectively.

Is it time to bit the bullet (and ignore specs by gizmond above) and just buy a box of 292mm spokes for both wheels and be done with it? They come with 12mm nipples.

They would build up fine on either length to be honest. I dunno if Gizmonds was based on actually building them with 290mm spokes or if he's just quoting a spoke calc...

My list above is based on actual wheels built by myself so it's guaranteed OK.

I always round down so personally would go with 290mm.

Whatever you decide once they're built it would be good to confirm and i'll add these to the list :-)

Rounding down by 1.6mm (or even 0.6mm) is worse than rounding up by 0.4. I'd get 292mm for both, personally.

Cheers guys, 292mm DT Competition ordered. Will let you know the outcome. This is my first wheel build so I am pretty excited :-)
I have a truing stand, dishing stick and spoke tensiometer, as well as spokeys. But I am little bit confused, I've also heard of a "nipple driver" - do I need this, or can I use something I already have in my toolbox?

A nipple driver is basically a screwdriver with a rotating handle and a point on the end of the blade. You use it to wind the nipples on to the end of the spoke when lacing - the idea being that the point makes the blade disengage once a particular amount of thread has been taken up, so all the nipples are engaged the same amount before you start to tension them (you want this to be the case as it helps the wheel to tension up straight from the beginning).

I have one but I've not really got on with it and I've stuck to using a little nubby screwdriver and doing it by eye.

Have fun. Make sure you oil the eyelets and spoke threads!

Thanks for the advice Regal, I have a tool fetish so I'll probably end up buying the DT Nipple Driver. My justification is the tools can't be stolen and they'll last a lifetime, or so I tell myself.

apologies for asking something that is probably obvious, but i have not built a wheel before. this will be my first attempt.

OldSkoolRacer indicates that 276mm is the right length for the velocity deep v + DA HB-7600 hi-flange hubs, which is the combination i will build. does that spoke length apply to both the front and the rear hub (assuming the same rim on both wheels)? i feel like i've seen some spoke calculators give different lengths for front and rear hubs, but maybe i am mistaken.

thanks.

36h, 3x lacing...

I have built a DA7600 36H rear and a 32H front so can only vouch for those specific combinations. On track wheels the front and rear spoke lengths are usually the same, but its always good to check with a spoke calc anyway.

I just checked for you using my spreadsheet that i've used for all the builds listed above and get 276mm for both front and rear 3x lacing 36H.

Hope that helps ;-)

it does, thanks again.

Any update on this - did you get them built OK?

Cheers guys, 292mm DT Competition ordered. Will let you know the outcome. This is my first wheel build so I am pretty excited :-)
I have a truing stand, dishing stick and spoke tensiometer, as well as spokeys. But I am little bit confused, I've also heard of a "nipple driver" - do I need this, or can I use something I already have in my toolbox?

No worries buddy, happy building!

it does, thanks again.

Any update on this - did you get them built OK?

Happy to say the build went perfect, although it did take a while to get it just right. 292mm (12mm nipples) is definitely correct for both front and rear HF Phil to Mavic Open Pro. Thanks for everyone's advice :-)

^good stuff - 32 hole i assume?

Yes - 3x

*** 32 Hole 3x Pattern***

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Campag Pista 32h + H+Son TB14 = 296mm (front & rear use same spoke length, note rear is slightly dished)
Dura Ace HB7600 32h + Velocity Deep V = 280mm
Goldtec Track Front 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Goldtec Track Front 32h + H+Son SL42 (Formation Face w/braking surface) = 264mm
Goldtec Track Rear 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Goldtec Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + H+Son Formation Face = 264mm
On-One Front Track 32h + Rigida DP18 (new style, not NOS) = 276mm
Phil Wood High Flange Front + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Phil Wood High Flange Rear + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Planet X Pista Front 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Planet X Pista Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Zenith Track Front 32h + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm
Zenith Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm

36 Hole 3x Pattern

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Dura Ace HB7600 36h (double fixed) + Velocity Deep V = 276mm
Zenith Track Front 36h + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm
Zenith Track Rear (Flip Flop) + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm

32 Hole 2x Pattern

Dura Ace HB7600 32h + Velocity Deep V = 270mm

*** 32 Hole 3x Pattern***

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Campag Pista 32h + H+Son TB14 = 296mm (front & rear use same spoke length, note rear is slightly dished)
Dura Ace HB7600 32h + Velocity Deep V = 280mm
Goldtec Track Front 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Goldtec Track Front 32h + H+Son SL42 (Formation Face w/braking surface) = 264mm
Goldtec Track Rear 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Goldtec Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + H+Son Formation Face = 264mm
On-One Front Track 32h + Rigida DP18 (new style, not NOS) = 276mm
Phil Wood High Flange Front + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Phil Wood High Flange Rear + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Planet X Pista Front 32h + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Planet X Pista Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Pro = 292mm
Zenith Track Front 32h + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm
Zenith Track Rear 32h (double fixed) + Mavic Open Sport = 294mm

36 Hole 3x Pattern

Hub + Rim = Spoke Length (standard 12mm nipple)
Dura Ace HB7600 36h (double fixed) + Velocity Deep V = 276mm
Phil Wood Hi flange 36h (flip flop) + Mavic CXP33 =284mm
Zenith Track Front 36h + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm
Zenith Track Rear (Flip Flop) + Mavic Open Sport = 290mm

32 Hole 2x Pattern

Dura Ace HB7600 32h + Velocity Deep V = 270mm

Hey guys

EDD is currently down and I need to double check a spoke calculation.

I'm building two pairs of 4x 48H BLB fresstyle hubs laced to 26" Chukkers.

I originally calculated the spoke length at 246mm all round but am considering doing one of the fronts radially.

Can anyone check the original calculation on another programme (or reccomend another to use) and let me know what the radial laced length would be?

Cheers
Tim