Which Tyres?

Yeah, i'm not sure, i don't really want to plow 70 sheets into a world of problems

Congrats @JB you win my TyreChallenge©

New Michelin Power tyres sound good.

Until I see independent lab roller tests, it's all just marketing bullshit.

Mind you, I've just had a look and Mich Pro4 SC tyres are actually pretty shit when it comes to Crr so knocking 10W off them just brings their new tyres into line with some of the faster options from other manufacturers.

Whilst velodrome wood isn't obviously the same as tarmac, I still found it amusing that Michelin Pro Race where the only tyres banned from Manchester Velodrome as apparently riders just slid down the banking with them.
Just checked, and yes, Michelin still banned from Manchester
http://www.nationalcyclingcentre.com/track/manchester-velodrome-track-bike-specification/

Still the standard tyre width in the Peleton-- and for good reason.

It's still getting bigger, 23mm is useless nowadays when you can have both comfort and speed with 25mm (or 28mm).

It's still getting bigger, 23mm is useless nowadays when you can have both comfort and speed with 25mm (or 28mm).

Not really. 25mm is not faster than 23mm. 25mm is neither more aerodynamic nor lighter. 25mm does not provide lower rolling resistance than 23mm. What it does provide is lower inflation levels for a similar rolling resistance. A 25mm front tyre at a slightly lower inflation level can-- again depends on the tyre-- a bit better handling in suboptimal conditions and more confort. This is nothing new. Back in the 1970s the tubular tyre of choice for Audax was the Clement Seta Campionato del Mondo. Wider tyres = Comfort? Sure but lets not really talk about comfort when so many people here are riding low spoke count deep section carbon rims. On the track where one can run very high pressures the narrow tyres are the top choice. They are clearly faster.

someone will be along shortly to refute your claims...

Not been following thread lately, but is this something you think Manchester should review?

someone will be along shortly to refute your claims...

People claim a lot. They also claim that clinchers are faster than tubular which again is wrong-- tubular tyre systems are lighter, handle better, provide superior comfort and even provide when using a performance optimal gluing technique a similar if not lower rolling resistance-- depends again on the tyre design (and its quality such as roundness etc). Aerodynamics is a difficult thing to talk about since it is not just the tyre but wheel and the whole bicycle-- fork etc. According to the studies I've seen narrow tubulars on narrow tubular wheels do tend to provide, in general, lower drag than any of these wide rimed wheels with clincher tyres. On something like the Mavic iO a narrow tubular tyre outperforms any clincher combination I've seen. To this aim I'm also familiar with a number of bicycle designs to try to optimize the use of said wheels. A few years a good friend developed a rear disc wheel with a national sports body that was not just spooky light but also so spooky narrow-- exploiting all kinds of carbon tricks-- that it seemed to vanish behind the seat-tube--- unfortunately due to "national interests" it did not get used at the Olympics (political pressure to opt for the visibility of a national vendor and "stickers" were not going to help).

Tub love thread >>>

Clinchers are faster. #anotherclaimwithnodata

Please can someone mute Edwards

Please can someone mute Edwards

Liquidate or, at least, silence all positions that don't jive with your beliefs?

There's only so many times I can listen to the same drum get beaten.

If I wanted to hear people presenting hollow arguments to convince people that their opinion is more correct than someone else's, I would read the helmet thread.

Clinchers are faster. #anotherclaimwithnodata

And Laurent Fignon löst the TdF because of his pony tail..

löst

Not really. 25mm is not faster than 23mm. 25mm is neither more aerodynamic nor lighter. 25mm does not provide lower rolling resistance than 23mm.

Base on what? conventional wisdom of your heyday? there's already a decent number of test showing that there's marginal gain with 25mm tyres, even 28mm, the gain is obvious in the real world, as it's never as perfect as an indoor velodrome.

What it does provide is lower inflation levels for a similar rolling resistance.

The whole point of going bigger, to allow a lower inflations without damaging the wheels/bikes, less jarring on poor surface that result in better grip, more comfort to the rider, and most importantly, less fragile.

Back in the 1970s the tubular tyre of choice for Audax was the Clement Seta Campionato del Mondo. Wider tyres = Comfort?

Because in the 1970s, the conventional wisdom that skinnier tyres at a higher pressure = faster, and of course, the British audaxers tend to stick to skinny tyres at the time (the French does the opposite by going for balloon tyres).

Tubular is always more comfortable in the smaller sizes than their clincher counterpart if you insist on sticking to 23mm, especially at a high pressure.

Sure but lets not really talk about comfort when so many people here are riding low spoke count deep section carbon rims.

Wheels play a surprisingly little role in comfort (emphasised on comfort, not in term of aerodynamic for instance), the tyres itself make the biggest of difference in comfort, hell even the bicycles can be made comfortable by just choosing the right tyres for it.

You can be uncomfortable on a Mavic Open Pro wheelset with a 23mm Gatorskins at 100psi, and yet be very comfortable on a Zipp 404 with 25mm GP 4000s II at 75psi.

On the track where one can run very high pressures the narrow tyres are the top choice. They are clearly faster.

Because it's on the fucking track.

You two need to get a room and produce @edwardZcobelz

They also claim that clinchers are faster than tubular which again is wrong.

By They, you mean Zipp, Continental, Schwalbe, HED, Specialized, Enve, Bontrager, Shimano, Reynolds etc.?

Corsa G+ 'Isotech' - any good? Would like a new set of tyres for the summer, and as gumwalls are becoming a bit more available I wouldn't mind getting some.

On Schwalbe One clinchers at the moment which have been absolutely fine through the winter, only puncture was a double flat when I hit a massive pot hole with nothing else for 100+ miles a week.

I can't run 25c GP4000s because they foul my callipers (ooh er), otherwise they'd probably be my choice. New rims are wider though, so does that mean they'll sit higher or lower? Never understood that.

vs

Archetype

anyone know of any good gumwalls 25c, skiddable and not too expensive, thanks

Possibly both.

1 Attachment

Then fit 23mm GP 4000s II, they come up bigger, so your 25mm is closer to 28mm.

Ah, thank you! I had seen that graphic recently but couldn't remember where. Right. Anyone able to measure some Vittoria Corsa G+ next to some GP4000s and Schwalbe One clinchers (well, you never know).