Tour de France 2009

Last time I checked, people weren't dying in their sleep from living at altitude.

But is it really a banned substance because it's a safety issue or because they think you're 'cheating'?

cheating

I don't think they care about the safety of the riders

Actually, that may have been a little 'talk before you think'. I'll think about it and come back to the judges.

But is it really a banned substance because it's a safety issue or because they think you're 'cheating'?

A little from column a and a little from column b.

Last time I checked, people weren't dying in their sleep from well regulated EPO regimes.

Fixed.

The distinction is more subtle than you suggest by alluding to historical problems caused by poorly designed drug regimes. If 'harm' were the only criterion which distinguished cheating from not cheating, training would be banned beyond a certain level. The stress caused by a heavy training block have short term and long term effects on some aspects of health which are of similar magnitude to the harms caused by some proscribed agents.

cheating
I don't think they care about the safety of the riders

That's not true. If that was the case they'd not have rest days, no have race doctors, etc.
AFAIK no other sports invest so heavily in monitoring the health of their athletes.

Fixed.
The distinction is more subtle than you suggest by alluding to historical problems caused by poorly designed drug regimes. If 'harm' were the only criterion which distinguished cheating from not cheating, training would be banned beyond a certain level. The stress caused by a heavy training block have short term and long term effects on some aspects of health which are of similar magnitude to the harms caused by some proscribed agents.

Yeah, again, how many people have died from over-training?
I'm not talking about the old unknown dodgy ticker problem either.
You seriously think hard training is more harmful than stuff like EPO?
Merckx is 64 and still kicking.. you reckon he might've done a little bit of training in his time? Maybe exerted himself a little bit more than Joe Blow?

i'm going up ventoux on friday.

attempting it, at least ;)

nice one tim, if you get back to the smoke straight after you can join andyp, clintsmoker and i on the special sofa on saturday - assuming mister p got up it today (i am in no doubt in this respect btw)

let us know how you got on andy. was thinking of you today dude

Merckx is 64 and still kicking.. you reckon he might've done a little bit of training in his time? Maybe exerted himself a little bit more than Joe Blow?

They inteviewed one of the guys that won the tour in the late 50s or Early 60s, he is about 80 now. He looked in excellent shape, didn't look a day over 60.

we're planning on riding up to the summit on friday (and down, of course), and then riding partway up on saturday to watch the race come past.

They inteviewed one of the guys that won the tour in the late 50s or Early 60s, he is about 80 now. He looked in excellent shape, didn't look a day over 60.

My aim is to still be riding a bike when I'm 80. It is amazing what regular exercise can do for you and how it helps you to keep going.

Amen to that.

I remember my first cycle holiday in Holland and an old dude passed us on his road bike, needless to say the commuter racing button got pushed but couldn't get near him. Would like to be putting the hurt into people when I'm a lot older.

You seriously think hard training is more harmful than stuff like EPO?

Probably not. More harmful than some proscribed substances/methods? Probably. Remember, many very safe drugs at therapeutic doses are banned during competition.

I'm just saying that 'degree of harm' is a bad starting point for an argument against the methods of performance enhancement you want to ban if you're not going to apply the same standard universally for all methods of performance enhancement

Im for the argument that it is cheating.

Tommy Simpson was full of speed when he died - motivation cheating.

I'm not sure that altitude trainign can be compard with epo. My understanding of it (or a question that id like answered by someone on her who knows more than me cos i know shit)is that at altitude you would still need to train to stress the body and get a significant increase in red blood cells whereas epo would boost rbc count sitting on the sofa. (and i know that dopers train like fuck regardless)

Anyway, im happy to beleive that the majority of the tour is now clean. I shall sit in my ivory tower before some epo pumped wanker brings it crashing down.

Oh - and Haussler looks like Pat sharp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
Good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

Military use!

Comparison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_training

Doping article says hematocrit can be boosted for up to 24 weeks, altitude training for 14 - 18 days. CHEATING!!

More fun to look out for:
Instead of the attack/counter attack strategy The Schleck Brothers will try to ride/attack together (with the blessing of Bjarne Riis).

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/20072009/3/schleck-ready-die-yellow-jersey-cause.html

the tour doesn't need lance, and is better off without him and his cronies, i can't blame the french for wanting shot of him. he is a self publicising egotistical prick who thinks he's bigger than cycling and bigger than the tour.

+1 !

Reminds me of how I learned to love watching the tour - spotting nice sites for hang gliding.
I have not flown at Annecy myself, but It sure looks beautiful.
YouTube - Hang Gliding La Tournette Annecy 2009

YouTube - Merci Annecy

Doping article says hematocrit can be boosted for up to 24 weeks, altitude training for 14 - 18 days. CHEATING!!

So how many days/weeks is the cut off for cheating if that's your measure?

Altitude training and sleeping in an altitude tent every night are different I assume too..

If anyone is recording today's stage...wouldn't d love a copy....I rode ove the Grand St Bernard with my brother in my early twenties en route to the med.....in doc martens, with rucksack on my back on a mudy fox mountain bike with knobblies...have a picture of me smoking at the top....

It's a climb rarely used for the TdF..

away they go ls & gs - the Greatest Show on Earth is off again

Sky have an online player thing.. tempted to watch that..

1st climb ahoy...

Fizik end of.

Can only get it on other computer. No luck. Will wait until tonight or CN it.

Gonna hit that City Road place any time J Dub?

@shins

Phwwwwwooooaaarrrrr!
rubs thighs with palms

Can only get it on other computer. No luck. Will wait until tonight or CN it.

Gonna hit that City Road place any time J Dub?

would love to but work ain't playing ball.

have got tomorrow afternoon off to watch it with a mate - but need to stay central for his benefit so looking like the sports cafe. skive work tomorrow dude - you know you want to.

i will even let you touch my Fizik bar tape