Fixed Bike Shops: Duty of Care to Shoppers

Had a conversation last night at souths, and I think drunkenly at the track day as well, when it was mentioned that some bike shops are selling bikes without foot retention (clips and straps)
Riding fixed isn't like riding anything else and to actually get the most out of it, your foot and your pedal need to be held together somehow, whether riding clipless or the aforementioned clips and straps, so why are shops selling people fixed bikes without them?
Do they have a duty of care to their customers, (and lets be honest riding fixed is big enough now, that people are coming in, pointing at a bike, because they want the look) who are riding away with no way to keep their feet on the pedals in an attempt to slow their bike down.
Should shops not sell bikes without some clips and straps, should they charge them more for it, or should they continue to do as they are doing, which is giving people the opportunity to buy into a culture of cycling, and then tell them to harden the fuck up when they hurt themselves trying to stop as pedal bashes them in their shin...
(pretty sure they don't tell them to harden the fuck up, but you know what I mean)
Shouldn't it be a case of each one, teach one, if the people in the shops who are making a living (hopefully) from selling our beloved style of bikes, don't want to make sure people don't hurt themselves learning what we know already, should they be told/forced to, can they be told/forced to, and can we as a community tell/force them and would we want to.

Wondered what others thought?

Ps. I wonder if this will be our very own RLJ/Helmet hell, or if this has already been regurgitated ad nauseum on the other cycling forums that I don't frequent.

Pps. If this has been posted/discussed before apologies...

+1 shops should really sell such bikes in an appropriate state for use.

Isn't it PSS not PPS?

Post Script Script

I think it's PPS (= "after, after writing" not "after writing writing")

Let's wait for the final verdict from Platini.

nope, the first "post" quantifies over the "post script", like post(post script). Literally, "after the post script".

To avoid de-railing the thread, I agree to a certain extent - shops should strongly advise clips & straps for road use, but use their judgment based on what type of customer they're dealing with. I would suspect (hope) that most do this anyway.

seeds and dov I would have thought you'd at least have answered the question before derailing...

but shouldn't it be a given that people selling fixed, KNOW you need to be attached to the pedals so "strongly advising" doesn't cut it does it, if they're riding singlespeed, if you must, but it its fixed, how could they let them get out the shop with nothing to hold their feet in place...

Practically, bike shops really should advise their customers properly, thats just common sense.

Legally its an interesting issue: could bike shops be held negligent for not adequately informing cyclists about the particular dangers associated with riding fixed without some form of foot retention? Does a duty of care exist between the bike shop / bike shop employee and the customer? Arguably yes, although this is just my opinion, but I'll hopefully look into this in more detail tomorrow.

Sorry for the premature derail. He started it.

The bikes have brakes though, right?

If I'm reading your OP properly it doesn't seem too bad to me. I rode fixed (with two brakes) for a month or so without any foot retention because I liked the way it felt, and because I could slow down quite effectively (though not skid).

I agree with you, but then again surely it makes more sense for bike shops to sell pedals with cages and straps so there must be some sort of missing link there

maybe customers dont want them or realise their importance-back to your point maybe they should be strongly advised?

buddha,

those are the questions I was concerned about, if someone comes off their brand new fixed bike because of lack of foot retention, who do they blame? themselves? the shop they bought it from? the bike itself? and if its the bike shop, how do they answer the accusation?
Also how long to the tabloid headlines about these out of control danger bikes become commonplace off the back of it...

Its illegal to sell a bike for road use which doesn't conform to british standards.

One of these standards is that it has 2 independent braking sytems.
So technically, a bike with flat pedals and a front brake (seen on many newbie hipster setups) isn't legal. because it only has one brake.

As a shop you can bypass this by whacking on a sticker stating that the bike is specifically for 'off road' or competition use only.

other lovely things that a new road bike is meant to have are - reflectors front and rear - aswell as reflectors on the wheels and a Bell.

I think it's more important to strongly recommend that they don't try any freewheeling on the way home.

Given that many people won't have experienced either fixed OR foot retention before, it could be argued that it's more dangerous to spring both on them at once. "Ooh dear, all this constant pedalling is a bit weird, I'd like to stop for a bit, I'll just take my foot off the bike...", etc.

It's an interesting question, anyway.

And I'm definitely with Aleksi, bike shops would be flogging the anodised MKS clips along with the rest of the bike if they thought they could.

But........

Most top end bikes don't come with pedals.......

@ corny: there is also the issue of the duty of care between manufacturer and customer, as well as complicating factors like contributory negligence of the consumer or their voluntary assumption of the risk - i.e. they would have to prove they really knew nothing about fixed gear riding etc. and therefore required a warning.

I can't do it now but tomorrow I will have a good look into this. there will no doubt be plenty of comparable case law out there.

Does this individual have a duty of care to shoppers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CiWdV2EHrE

quality-- more indoor lounge riding please.
watch out for squishing the cat........

Yeah they do, a shop sending someone out on a fixed-gear bike without clips/straps is like sending Frodo to Mordor without sufficient lembas bread, i.e. dangerous.

watch out for squishing the cat........

Don't worry - I have it on good authority that the rider thinks that cats are actually gods, much like the ancient Egyptians.

I can't help think this is symptomatic of the way the world is going.
Someone else has to make sure its safe, whatever it is.
If you are over 18 then its up to you.
Its the same argument as helmets, bike shops should insist you buy a helmet with a bike, and knee pads, and elbow pads, and eye protection, and gloves, and a warm jumper incase it gets cold, and a waterproof incase it gets wet, and a filter mask incase you breath in fumes, and on and on and on forever without end till we are all wrapped up in crash proof casings breathing purified air, and never ever doing anything "dangerous"..
I am perfectly capable of making an informed decision, and if I have not researched what I really need before I purchase somethin well thats a concious decision too.
Shit happens and as long as people are people thay will have shit happen to them, but its their choice.
I, for instance am about to light up a very fat rollie, I have been told its bad for me, and illegal, but I enjoy it and it don't hurt no one else so WTF?
Too much "you can't do that" in the world.

to be honest i think someone new to fixed is more likely to fall over clipped in/strapped in, as with the obligatory red light unclip fail

ultimately it must be the consumers choice, otherwise they could buy the whole bike minus pedals, then buy pedals w/o straps later and fit them themselves

it doesn't really make sense

people are more likely to complain that they fell off due to being strapped in after being forced into it

i'm all for foot retention btw :P

@seeds
aaah thats alright then, the egyptians actually knew a thing or two, as well as cat woship, they almost certainly did some form of yoga, were into the whole planetary alighnment cosmic thing going on. they also wiped themselves out so similar to what our 'civilisation' is emabarked upon.
Nice of them to leave loads of stuff for Indiana Jones to find though.

I'm going to become a millionaire by coaching a benevolent lobster to straddle my BB, squeezing my feet to the pedals with his claws, and releasing when the bike stops. I will then cross-breed him with lobsters of varying colours, so that hipsters can match their lobster to their rims.

Foolproof.

I'm going to become a millionaire by coaching a benevolent lobster to straddle my BB, squeezing my feet to the pedals with his claws, and releasing when the bike stops. I will then cross-breed him with lobsters of varying colours, so that hipsters can match their lobster to their rims.

Foolproof.

Lobster, now there's an idea. And when you've finished with it I could fry it up with some lentils and peas.

Nice.

Tell you what I'd do to a lobster? Boil and eat the motherfucker.

I am so hungry.