Basic drivetrain queries for the roadies...

is yorks hill "anything"? that setup failed to get me up that

Jeez, with a 34t on the front, a 16t would do me fine on Yorks Hill* :p

and all that talk of compact chainsets...pffft. but of those that walked, i rode up the furthest. so dont feel that bad about it. ;p

carrying extra weight and my general fitness is crap crap crap this year. ill get over it one day (without the 27t). hopefully before summer's end.

If you're lucky you can pick up NOS campag chorus bits off ebay. I got a crankset (53/39) from 2005 or something for £40.

ive just got a 50/34 veloce compact groupset, im very happy with it. after years of fixed and SS riding over endless cornish hills, ive become quite strong and used to it being difficult, and i feel like i can ride forever with the option of gears at my disposal. i wouldnt mind putting togather a custom casette for touring with luggage.

i chose this groupset mainly becuase i liked the campag shifters alot more than the shimano ones. i also plan to get somthing nice made by mercian when i can afford it, so didnt want anything really modern looking.

what i would say is that the action of the shimano shifters is smoother, where as the campag has more of a click. i actually like a good click with my tools/devices as i find it satisfying and comforting, but i think some people prefer a smooth action.

Some miscellaneous thoughts...

1. I have the following cranksets: 53/39, 50/39, 50/34. My cassettes are 12-23 and 12-25. 34-25 gets me up anything, and I'm planning on taking this combo to the alps this summer. 50-12 is definitely not undergeared, despite the comments here!!!! 50-11 is a big gear, if you're strong enough to "need" that, then you wouldn't be asking questions about gearing!

2. You need a triple if: a) you're weak and like to plod along (this isn't meant critically, more a statment of fact!); b) you carry luggage up hills; c) you'd doing long rides (where 100miles is only the start of long).

3. People who really suffer on longer rides generally fall into category 2a) but don't know it - know your strengths, and there's no shame in running a triple.

4. Most people should be using a compact, 50/34 with 12-25 is going to do it all. If you start with that and decide you don't like it, it's easy to buy a 36 chainring or 12-23 cassette (if tighter gearing is what you'd like) or a bigger cassette e.g. 13-29 (if you can't get up hills). If you do want to run a triple, 12-23 is probably what you'd want.

5. Alloy centaur is good stuff! I use it. The 09 shifters are excellent and a definite upgrade on the previous shape. However, cassettes and cranksets have taken a slight step back in quality - I recently picked up 06 Chorus alloy cranks and a cassette on ebay. If you want older kit, any of the old 9 or 10-speed campag stuff centaur/daytona and above is great kit.

FWIW I'm going to build a light touring/audax bike later this year - I'm highly likely to fit a triple, because I can see myself wanting to lug more around (e.g. tents) for longer and up bigger hills than anticipated, plus I have other bikes if I want to have a blast. I guess it all boils down to intended usage: luggage and/or long==triple, no-luggage and short==compact, strong==53/39.

The only other thing to bear in mind is that serious tourists sometimes use mountain bike derailleurs for robustness and gearing range. Check out Thorn cycles website, their promo material has some interesting discussion about suitable equipment choices for audaxy and touring bikes.

Finally, Dave Yates, master framebuilder and audax enthusiast, has this to say about gearing (from his website):

"[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Work out what you think will be a low enough bottom gear and add one or two teeth to the sprocket ! When you are well into a long event the hills start getting steeper and gears you would not normally contemplate become very inviting. I consider a triple chainset a must although some still ride a double. A well thought out triple set up can actually weigh less than a double with big sprockets. The weight of the inside ring is negligible, the sprockets can be much smaller saving quite a big chunk of steel My own preference is for a 48-40-28 chainset with a 12-21 or 23 block I know its a bit high but you get the general idea."[/FONT]

Hope the helps!

thanks all.

ive just got a 50/34 veloce compact groupset, im very happy with it. after years of fixed and SS riding over endless cornish hills, ive become quite strong and used to it being difficult, and i feel like i can ride forever with the option of gears at my disposal. i wouldnt mind putting togather a custom casette for touring with luggage.

i chose this groupset mainly becuase i liked the campag shifters alot more than the shimano ones. i also plan to get somthing nice made by mercian when i can afford it, so didnt want anything really modern looking.

same here. i just ordered the whole veloce-group for the same reasons (and bc it seemed very affordable). i never put together a geared bike and i'm looking forward to building it up. i hope i didn't make any bad choices.

please hippy, i'm counting on you here!

Sorry man.. just back at work so a bit busy.. can only find time for swift HTFU-type comments. ;)

1. one of the key decisions appears to be the choice between double and triple chainsets, and compact or standard. is this just preference? when might you use each? this is a mystery to me though probably very straightforward indeed.
   
2. if i were looking to build a versatile audax type bike for both short weekend rides but also longer tours and centuries, what might a standard gearing be for the two or three chainrings? and what about the cassette?
   
3. i was assuming 10-speed is the way to go these days for this type of riding. what are the other key decisions when speccing the drivetrain?
   
4. finally, i've been lusting after an alloy centaur group, would this be ill-advised? could i go lower or should i try and fork out for chorus? i'm very interested in learning about shimano also, but for this particular build i'd like to go for campagnolo for a number of (frivolous) reasons.
   
   

i realise there are other forums for this but i like you lot and trust your opinions. oh and thanks for any help.

I only run standard chainsets. Why? Because it lets me laugh at riders using Triples and Compacts. Not the most sensible choice but I'm happy with it :)
Think about where you are likely to be riding. Long rides over big mountains with heavy loads means a triple would be fantastic. I've not yet come across a hill I couldn't climb in 39/26 so, thus far I've never needed the lower gearing provided by a Compact. Some people do appreciate this gearing though, for sure. Quite a few people were running Compact with a large rear sprocket and still struggling on the climbs in Ireland.

39/53 is standard double gearing.
Triples are more around the 30-40-50 mark.
Compacts are around 50/30?
Cassettes are 11-21, 12-23, 12-25, 12-26, 12-27 and a bunch of other variations

I've got 9 and 10 speed bikes. They both work. You just need to remember to use the correct spacers when swapping wheels and cassettes around. I'd choose based on cost. 9spd won't disappear for a while yet so probably offers some bargains.

Campag is evil. Never buy Campag.

Job done. :)

2009: The Year of the Gears. Fact.

I'm still running 8 speed, so what do I know, but, I switched out the 39 for a 42, so I have 53 42 up front and run a 12-23 rear. Seems to cope with the Derbyshire dales just fine.

all things considered i reckon i should go for a 50-34 compact double with a 12-25 cassette, probably quite a standard setup.

the cranks themselves come in three lengths. how best to choose?

Hey Josh,
+1 for Campag, feels much more 'precise' and mechanical.
+1 for compact, my road bike is 50/34 with an 11-25 cassette (which Campag now do) although 12-27 is prob better for your needs/knees!
Also depends how much you hate hills and/or loaded up you'll be, but I've never used the inner ring on a triple, even on a mountain bike!

Finally, Centaur is good quality. I've got Chorus and had veloce before, both excellent. It is prob worth getting this or last year's kit, as it will equate to Record from say 2005, just cheaper cos it doesn't have the fancy name.
Oh, and Campag hubs should be stocked by most wheelbuilders.

Enjoy!

all things considered i reckon i should go for a 50-34 compact double with a 12-25 cassette, probably quite a standard setup.

the cranks themselves come in three lengths. how best to choose?

Hey, just overlapped with your post!

What's your inside leg measurement? Mine is 31 in and I use 170 on the road bike and 165 on the SS. Most people use cranks that are too long....

all things considered i reckon i should go for a 50-34 compact double with a 12-25 cassette, probably quite a standard setup.

the cranks themselves come in three lengths. how best to choose?

if i got it right, it's long legs - long crankarms

(enter your bodymeassurements here: http://www.bikeforest.com/CAD/bcad.html )

+1 for Campag, feels much more 'precise' and mechanical.

Want.

so helpful! the shroud is gradually dissipating.

i just realised i had no idea what setup my road bike has, so i went and looked. apart from discovering that i really need to clean my bike, i am running a 50/36 to 11-24 (10 speed).

it's been really versatile and has got me up some decent climbs and through a couple of very long days (the longest being 230km). i don't race, though.

i have 105 shifters/front mech and ultegra rear mech, and they are very good. i also don't like the campag levers.

I've got something like '08 10spd Centaur QS (quick-shift) levers. They shift more like Shimano - no clunky clicky, and no trim (to speak of) on the front shifter.

Ultimately I think I prefer the more 'positive' feel of normal Campag shifters, and having front trim, but it doesn't seem to be a problem on my Centaur front shifter if set-up correctly. In the 53t, I can use all but the 23t without chain rub (and everyone knows not to cross-chain anyway); and in the 39t, I can trim by one notch, which is fine for 19t-23t and 13t-18t.

Campag have reverted back to clunky clickiness for Centaur now - probably called ULTRA shift or something.

the cranks themselves come in three lengths. how best to choose?

I have a 29inch inside leg (I have ridculously short legs for my height) and I find that 170mm is about right for me. Make of that what you will.

I've got old chorus (8spd) and it's still going fine. Worth noting that Campag you can change up multiple gears at a time, not sure you can on shimano, though I might be ragingly out of date.

New Campag freewheels seem to be unbelievably noisy....I can hear my mate from a mile a way (once he begins to catch up with me....)

New Campag freewheels seem to be unbelievably noisy....I can hear my mate from a mile a way (once he begins to catch up with me....)

I rode a Fulcrum Racing Speed a few weeks ago and the freewheel was so noisy it was unbelievable. Incredibly light wheels though.

Finally, Dave Yates, master framebuilder and audax enthusiast, has this to say about gearing (from his website):

"[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Work out what you think will be a low enough bottom gear and add one or two teeth to the sprocket ! When you are well into a long event the hills start getting steeper and gears you would not normally contemplate become very inviting. I consider a triple chainset a must although some still ride a double. A well thought out triple set up can actually weigh less than a double with big sprockets. The weight of the inside ring is negligible, the sprockets can be much smaller saving quite a big chunk of steel My own preference is for a 48-40-28 chainset with a 12-21 or 23 block I know its a bit high but you get the general idea."

Worth mentioning that (in person) he's very clear that your major expenditure should be on a really good set of wheels and tyres rather than the lightest/poshest groupset. I think it pains him a little to see people paying >£1000 for a gruppo and pairing it with a pair of cheapie Ksyriums or something.

FWIW, I have Campag Centaur compact on my Yates course bike and have found it works beautifully (though the shifters divide opinion a good deal).

two further questions:

1. how many cables are there coming away from campy ergopower brake/shifting levers? what would be better, a drop handlebar with single or double grooves?

2. how straightforward is it to set up a drivetrain correctly at home? presumably there is an ideal procedure to work through to set up the indexing for the gears? the last thing i'd want is for the derailleurs to click-click-click forever and a day; is it best to have a good bike shop do it?

thank you.

1. Comfort wise it would be better to have 2 grooves.

2. Very easy.
   First set the limit screws by eye (to make sure the derailleur jockey won't throw the chain off either end of the cassette)
   Secondly, attached the gear cable, taught - while the shifters are in the lowest gear selection
   Lastly, make small changes on the derailluer's barrel adjuster.

You might have to play with the tension screw - Only if the jockey wheel ends up touching the cassette (usually at the low (large) end of the cassette)

Obligatory Sheldon link: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html