Recommend a protein supplement?

There's the small issue of practicality, unfortunately.

I don't do lunges often, as I reckon I'm doing enough to my quads on the bike.

That, and it makes cycling home a bit tricky.

Yep neither did the guys I knew, and a lot of them were experienced lifters, had trained for a long time, risky exercise IMO, and I would just avoid it at all costs, front squats and jump squats are much safer and far more effective at building up quad strength, look at the quads on Olympic lifters, and those guys do endless front squats, work almost exclusively with barbells, and don't bother with lunges.

My opinion won't change when it comes to lunges, i've had 7 years of pretty serious training under my belt, admittedly for the first time since I was 15 (excluding just under 2 years recovering from pretty major car crash injuries) I haven't been to the gym this year since early feb due to lazyness/various injuries/increased freelance work.
But i've trained with some pretty crazy powerlifters and some pretty hardcore athletes over the years, and i've seen people far more experienced than myself say exactly the same thing, have you ever tried front squats? They are seriously good at improving quad strength, I did nothing but squat exercises for a year, and then got into a jovial chat with a guy at the gym who was claiming that I would somehow be shit at legpresses because I hadn't touched them for nearly 18 months, I still managed 280kg for 8 reps, despite never having squatted above 160-170kg.
Its good not to fall into the trap of doing an exercise just because you find it easy to do or you're used to it, its good to switch it up now and again.

@ crazy james,

Was that your total daily diet you posted on the first page?

@ crazy james,

Was that your total daily diet you posted on the first page?

Pretty much yeah, thats a good example of my daily eating habits back then, right now my diet is shit in comparison, as I have this terrible habit, when i'm not training of not giving a shit about eating so well either lol.
Although its not too bad, its not as good as it was back then.

OK. just that is does not look like theres many calories there for a 200kg deadlift = P

I'll happily defer to your experience and give front squats a go - I've always been happy to change it up.

At a rough guess, am I looking at 50% - 60% of my normal squat weight?

As an aside - I have a friend that used to oil down female bodybuilders.

Yep i'd say around 50% to start off with and see how you go.
If you still want a nice finishing exercise afterwards, I recommend deep over head barbell squats, with just the barbell, or depending on how brave your feeling stick a little extra weight on, an absolute killer after a hard session.

OK. just that is does not look like theres many calories there for a 200kg deadlift = P

Its not just about the calories mate, although I did consume on average 4500-5000cal a day.
Its about timing your eating correctly, consuming good quality protein from whole foods, consuming the right combinations of food at the right times, knowing how to train, when to max out, when not to max out, and how to break through plateaus, I was 17 stone 3 lbs when I was deadlifting that kinda weight and am at just under 16 stone now.
I haven't touched a barbell seriously since January/February, but after a good warm up I can still walk in and bust 130kg for 10 reps

... working to total failure (negative reps down from your maximum) ....

huh?? you mean not completing the full amount of reps you set out to do?

if so +1. I have obviously nowhere near CrazyJames experience, but it's worth stating that my above much bragged about weight increase I've just managed never involved anything directly uncomfortable -pushing myself to the breaking point or the like.

ectomorphs are better cyclists ;)

but seriously, good for you starfish... if that is what you want, GO FOR IT. Having a body you like is a good feeling.

:-)

Slightly unrelated, but what is peoples preference - eat breakfast then commute, or commute on empty stomach then eat at work?

I'm gonna try eating breakfast before commute tomorrow, see if it improves energy levels

huh?? you mean not completing the full amount of reps you set out to do?

if so +1. I have obviously nowhere near CrazyJames experience, but it's worth stating that my above much bragged about weight increase I've just managed never involved anything directly uncomfortable -pushing myself to the breaking point or the like.

No no, I mean maxing out until failure, e.g. hitting a weight you can no longer lift, and then working back from that weight set by set until you reach total failure (can't even lift the barbell) those are negative repa, as you've already reached muscle failure at your max weight and you are then effectively working backwards to zero (barbell only).

At the moment of writing, 13 weeks or so after I started this thread I've gone from 64kgs to 71kgs. That's a 12% gain. My body fat is down slightly, not much, but if you compare that to the new weight it's down even more in relative terms.

I know all the "no need for supplements" advice given in this thread was well meant, but I'm posting this as other skinny muppets like myself might want to know it works for some. Not that I didn't revise my diet otherwise. I've been on about 100g protein a day from food, but then 50g a day from powder which there was no way I could have managed from food.

(writing this, I will have bumped the thread to the front qualifying for now end of pisstaking..... posting about my own weight like a bulimic teenage chick, I kind of deserve it though...)

I started at 64kg around march. I tore my knee ligaments on the 10th march, and got into lifting proper as means of rehabilitation and because I wanted to become more athletic (always been slow and weak) Started lifting and eating like a beast once knee settled down.

I am up to 70kg bodyweight, no supplements except fish oil for my bad knee.

I went from no push ups to 4 sets: 20-15-12-10 (chest touching ground every rep)

No chin ups or pull ups to: 10 chinups of 7 pull ups

No dips to : 10-5-5-5

empty bar squat to 72.5kg 5x5

deadlift: 0 ( yeah I could barely do empty bar) to 85kg 5 fast reps

Overhead press (my slowest progress) : 10kg (junior empty barbell) to 27.5kg 3x5

Bench press (bad shoulders, least enjoyable lift): empty bar to 47.5kg 5x5

Power clean: empty bar to 37.5kg 5x5 (will do 40kg next time)

Barbell rows: will test on wednesday, aint done em in ages.

on the topic of flys, what do you call the kind of inverse flys, lying face down on an incline bench, lifting them in a outward sweeping movement? they any good?
if not, what else is good to work the back? (better posture etc.)

Reverse flys, rear delt flys etc, you don't hit any muscles on your back at all with this exercise, you're mostly hitting your rear deltoids when you do that exercise (with a bit of traps involved depending on the angle), they're not bad, useful for helping to push through plateaus on the bench press, they are just an isolation exercise, they have a purpose but will not give you great strength on their own.
The following exercises all hit that same muscle group to a degree as well as many others at the same time, along with improving your back strength, core strength, and overall explosive power.

Power snatches (essential this is done with good technique and a low enough weight to avoid injury)
Full snatch (from the ground, again essential this is done with proper technique!)
Barbell rows
Close grip rows
Wide grip pull-ups (good to combine with lat pull-down machine until lat/shoulder strength improves)

As does deadlifting, again correct technique is essential as with all exercises, close grip rows are especially good at hitting the rear deltoid area, make sure to try and push your shoulders back at the end of the movement.
The only advice I would give with the above exercises is don't do full snatches and deadlifts in the same week, as they are both intensive exercises that engage similar muscle groups (but in different ways), so I would alternate week by week, deadlift one week, full snatch the next etc etc....
Not sure what any of those

Slightly unrelated, but what is peoples preference - eat breakfast then commute, or commute on empty stomach then eat at work?

I'm gonna try eating breakfast before commute tomorrow, see if it improves energy levels

I eat a bowl of cereal at home, ride to work then have a second bowl at my desk.

I ate porridge this morning pre ride - felt a bit icky but also felt like had more energy - will persevere.

On an unrelated unrelated note, anyone use vegetarian Glucosamine Hydrochloride?

I'm a doer then an eater. I simply cannot do it the other way round otherwise I blow chunks.

I'm back off the supps at the moment. I'm in week 4 of a 10 week camp and will start bringing them back in at week 6 to see me through to the end and ultimately test week. I'm feeling good without them though.

Got a good session lined up tomorrow in the pool. Taking my 30kg plate in there and running lengths underwater. Then I'm straight into 50 lengths regular, then 30 arms only. Then I'm gonna go and hang with the weirdo's in the sauna.

I can't wait to go to bed just so I can wake up and go to war.

guys you are cyclists, what's with all the upper body work ?

you want to cut that out cos it messes with your PTWR

Beach muscles innit.

Slightly unrelated, but what is peoples preference - eat breakfast then commute, or commute on empty stomach then eat at work?

I'm gonna try eating breakfast before commute tomorrow, see if it improves energy levels

unless you are actively seeking to lose weight, eat some time before exercise. especially in the a.m when the body has been without nurishment for hours whilst asleep.same time you dont specify how far commute is so if youre not doing some noticeable aerobic work prolly don’t make any difference.

have read this thread through since its started for protein advice. being vegi, feel its working nutritionally helping muscle growth.

guess if you want to purely bulk up its mega cals + weights, for me ashtanga yoga is the way, when you get working at supporting all body weight on hands -strength,power, balance and flexibility fill you with energy, 20,000 postures and you wont ever get bored like in the gym either
;-)

guys you are cyclists, what's with all the upper body work ?

you want to cut that out cos it messes with your PTWR

Dude, I squat 3 times a week, recently added lunges on an extra day too. :D

I do see your point though, all these nonce fly type exercises. Wtf?

I been hitting the iron old school. Must say I do like pendlay rows though.

I would just like to comment on something that i'm sure you are all aware of, but is often overlooked.... Its amazing how much leg strength improves when your core muscles are functioning at their optimal - and in balance with each other.
All these squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc etc, can be massively improved when the core muscles get some of their own training.
Sooooo many people fail to understand that the the core muscles are not just the abs and back extensors. The core is all of the muscles that have any contact with the pelvis and spine, and any muscles that function as stabilisers for these areas. We're talking lats, glutes, hip flexors, rotator muscles etc.
When these are at their strongest, other training becomes more functional, and more effective. There's no point "upping" your squat weight if you are using a fucking pointless weight belt, and the same goes for straps etc.... if you can't grip a weight - and you need straps to lift it - your body is not ready to do so, and you gain nothing from it.
I have worked extensively on this, and have found that "cheating" the body, by training with a weak core, fails to give consistent strength gains - and usually results in imbalances that lead to injury.
Enjoy your training, and hit "all" of your goals..... effectively!!

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