Rules for classifieds... do you want them?

OK, so the PM I got went roughly like this:

I was wondering what you thought about introducing a few rules regarding the sale of stuff. I don't really want to propose it, honestly I prefer the free nature of this place but recently there has been a pretty big increase in the amount of for-sale threads, many of them forum newbies, and I think it's necessary. I was thinking maybe a minimum of 100 posts / 1 month waiting time before they're allowed to sell things, something like that.

It's also not really fair on forum regulars, when the times comes to us wanting to sell a pair of wheels for example, we're only gonna find it harder because there are more wheels on the forum marketplace. It just saturates the market.

Also, it's far too easy to fence stolen stuff on here, this rule will make it harder.

But that's basically one proposal for a problem, and there could be others (if you have a better idea, put it in this thread).

Now me... I'm for and against. All over the place as usual.

I never liked the idea of preventing people posting classifieds, as if something was being sold that someone on here would want... I'd want them to have the earliest opportunity to get a good deal.

So I kinda don't want to prevent for sale adverts, or limit them... even though this is directly what is being proposed because then it might hurt those forumengers selling stuff.

I guess the first question is what is more important... the community as consumers, or the community as sellers? Or are they equally important?

And from that, arise questions about whether with that in mind we feel that we need to do anything. Should we stem the tide of adverts? Should there be strict rules about contractual obligations, etc? Should prices be declared and fixed?

I guess it's a free for all on how we as a community would like the classifieds to be.

And a really big thing for me... IF we collectively decide that there is a need for human moderation of the classifieds section, then the site has fundamentally been re-defined from a communication provider/enabler to a publisher. As soon as an editorial hand is involved we're a publisher. And if you all nudge me down that road I will have to get moderators and police the whole forum. It's not a half-way thing... either we're a publisher or a service provider.

So bear that in mind when you comment, as classifieds could easily be a thin wedge to policing the whole site, whereas the site as a whole is pretty much just a wild west at the moment with only the most extreme things dealt with.

As soon as an editorial hand is involved we're a publisher. And if you all nudge me down that road I will have to get moderators and police the whole forum.
Can I police the forum? The first thing I'd do as a moderator is delete member 376.

I think if you go through the nursery period, then you can post up/sell what you want.
Rules that I would like to see are just in terms of making it clear and letting people know whether your selling/buying/for trade etc. Too often people don't do this making it hard to figure out what is for sale until you click through.

I've got issues with people coming onto the forum just to sell stuff, but we're a growing forum, not everyone will get the humour or want to stay once their bike/bike bits are sold. Their choice, their loss in my opinion.

Putting in arbitary rules to who is a member, in terms of time served, or posts made just creates a schism between who is on the forum now and those who will join later.

If people really want to sell stuff, they can do it on gumtree/ebay etc, rather than just here. And for all the speculation, and amateur detective work, about stolen bikes/bits for sale, we as buyers never truly know whether something is stolen or not, until someone tells you Oi that bit/bike is mine, it was stolen whenever...

my main bug is I'd rather people were honest about what and why they are selling. If its a business for you, man up and make it obvious.
Like Jos, or Roberto, or Freshstripe when he's here, or every so often the FixedGearLondon boys.
Don't try to sell something on the forum at what is assumed is mates rates or breaking even, because you need to fund another build, or the part wasn't suitable, right size etc, when you bought parts for cheap and are now rolling them over in the search for easy profit.

thats my tuppence worth, as you were

Wild West ftw.

I don't like the idea that you have to earn the right to sell your stuff purely so that the 'market' isn't saturated for forum regulars wanting to sell. The more things that are on offer here the better I say.

For me, the suggestion that the current situation is unfair on sellers is a bit ludicrous. At the moment a seller can make their own rules on how they wish to sell their item and the more things sold on here, the bigger the resource becomes and the amount of people looking in the classifieds will increase. Sounds pretty good to me.

I wouldn't be against some 'unwritten rules' though. A suggested way of doing things rather than a strictly enforced way.

On a serious note, you've already given the forum the ability to buy and sell whatever in the past. This used to be (sort of) policed by us, the members by flaming people trying to sell on their first posts.

You've given us all the ability to hide everything so if people are that upset/offended/anger ridden/close to commiting genocide over the advertising of parts for sale it's quite easy to just hit ignore.

As for whether older members should have better priveledges over new members for the selling of their items I would personally feel this to be a backwards way to go about things. The forum is bigger so there are more than likely more people wanting to buy as well as more people wanting to sell. Additionally it should be the quality of the goods that mark a sale. If you sell shite it shouldn't matter how long you've been on the forum. Likewise if you're new and unable of posting classifieds it would be a shame to see that beautiful cinelli/njs/colnago whatever the fuck it is end up on ebay instead.

I say no moderation. I don't think it's fair to restrict adverts to push up prices of part, if you have some wheels for sale and the market is saturate, wait, or advertise somewhere else. Simple, if you can't get the price you want here sell somewhere else.

I guess the first question is what is more important... the community as consumers, or the community as sellers? Or are they equally important?

i personally reckon that the most important thing is the community full stop. not as sellers or as buyers but as a community with a sense of shared passion, knowledge and interest. i know that lots of people who have been here a while will agree that this aspect has changed over time.

adding the restrictions stated above, or something like it would be a bloody good idea i think. maybe not 100 posts. 50 perhaps is more doable, but definatley a time and post restriction. sofolks get to know the character of a poster and decide what they think of them before buying stuff. the point about stolen goods is very relevant. everyone knows about the brick lane stolen bikes sellers. if they can log on here and make a quick buck then maybe they will. but if its more of a faf to do it, maybe they wont.

i think limiting this kind of thing will help in terms of the sense of community that has been lost along the way. it wont bring it back butit could stop it getting worse perhaps.

i vote yes. policing the whole site is unlikely and unnecessary, but the classifieds, with money changing hands, is a different story.

Can I police the forum? The first thing I'd do as a moderator is delete member 376.

Who is member 376

one post only, no response, they can edit. people can communicate via pm

Who is member 376
Work it out for yourself.

i'll give you a hint...

I appreciate the concerns but personally I'm against rules for buying or selling stuff on the forum. I mentioned this on an earlier thread about this.

Buyers: If you do not like it, do not buy it.

Sellers: If no one buys it, up your game or lower your price.

I don't want to pay over the odds for things because we control the marketplace and don't allow people in to sell stuff. This is a huge community - being a heavily posting active member of the forum should not be a prerequisite for selling stuff.

I think that an educated consumer is best.

1. Check out the seller - is this post #6?
   
2. Check the seller's join date - was it within the last 48 hours?
   
3. If you want a guarantee go to e-bay
   
   

Wild West FTW.

i'll give you a hint...
]

Oh him! Yeah he's a cunt...ban him.

I appreciate the concerns but personally I'm against rules for buying or selling stuff on the forum. I mentioned this on an earlier thread about this.

Buyers: If you do not like it, do not buy it.

Sellers: If no one buys it, up your game or lower your price.

I don't want to pay over the odds for things because we control the marketplace and don't allow people in to sell stuff. This is a huge community - being a heavily posting active member of the forum should not be a prerequisite for selling stuff.

I think that an educated consumer is best.

1. Check out the seller - is this post #6?
   
2. Check the seller's join date - was it within the last 48 hours?
   
3. If you want a guarantee go to e-bay
   
   

Wild West FTW.

+1

sales suggestion is interesting, but if people can't reply to a thread how could the 'group moderation' that occurs continue such as pointing out something is dodgy/expensive/redicoulsly cheap I know a lot of what goes on is pointless but it can be helpfull someimes.

I'm voting wild west continued

I think anyone with a post count >20,000 should automatically have all their classifieds made STICKY at the top of every section. Every 10mins these ads should also appear as popups for all other users. I think noobs should be forced to buy from >20k sellers at market price x 20 before they can exit the nursery. Current full members get a discount of market value x 10.

Job done. :)

I think the forum does a pretty good job of policing itself - case in point being when that dude from some shop tried to sell the Bridgestone/Anchors on here, and he got told and booted pretty sharpish

you all said stuff i agree with, so im not sure why im still up for it. ah what do i care, i can post in the classifieds.

but seriously, i think that it would encourage people to become part of the community aspect of the forum you know? meet people, get involved with discussions and the like. but i suppose it doesnt take into account that there are plenty of people who are long time members but rarely post. some folks like to keep to themselves. aww i dunno now. you got a hard job velocio.

just ban people from saying "dibs" and ban dale from posting in any classified thread except his own.

then it should work out fine

one post only, no response, they can edit. people can communicate via pm

I quite like this idea. With 'for sale' changed to 'sold' after sale?

actually, i just thought, no moderation. i joined ctc forum just to buy and sell very happily. i would have been fucked off as a genuine buyer/seller if ii had to go through ssome pain in the ass nursery period on the bloody ctc... so i suppose i shouldnt expect it of here.. welcome to my train of thought.mind the gaps.

I'm going to agree with Dale and fruity.
Although it does mean that there is no bumping....

True, but if you're looking to buy, there's allways the search button.

Velocio, if a thread only had one post, and the post was edited, would that "bump" it?

No. But isn't bumping a bit cheeky anyway?