2009-04-05 - Rider Down, Old Street roundabout Shoreditch exit

3 cyclists (me and a friend included) decided to ride to the pedestrian crossing so as to make it easier to shoot across down the opposite road.
this guy went and got hit by a car (irrelevant that its a 4x4) which was driving through as normal.

Just thinking out loud but is it possible the guy assumed the lights were green as 2 other bikes had headed off as if to go through junction???

Just thinking out loud but is it possible the guy assumed the lights were green as 2 other bikes had headed off as if to go through junction???

that kind of logic only works for lemmings

TBH wvm, probably safer to make your assumptions based on the designated traffic controls. Just a thought

My thoughts go out to both the rider & the driver but lights are there for a reason...

Just thinking out loud but is it possible the guy assumed the lights were green as 2 other bikes had headed off as if to go through junction???

i doubt it, we were waiting in the lights for ages and then moved to the left by about 6ft via the pavement to cross the pedestrian.

I can understand why people RLJ and (apart from the legal implications) I don't have a problem with people doing it, but I genuinely can't understand how people can say that it is mostly safer to RLJ. Perhaps in some instances, but I'd say 90% of the time (as long as you are a good rider who knows the lights/roads/what they are doing) RLJ'ing is no safer or more dangerous than sitting there. I mean seriously, how can sitting at the front of traffic at a red light be more dangerous than illegally jumping it?

Did this happen at the lights approaching the Foundary from Old Street Roundabout? Was the rider going across them to head down Great Eastern Street. If he was then he probably got taken out by the car turning right on the filter outside the Foundary. I have seen many near-misses here as I cross this twice a day. If you are going to RLJ then you really need to be aware of the light patterns and pay particular attention to ant possible filter lights.

. I mean seriously, how can sitting at the front of traffic at a red light be more dangerous than illegally jumping it?

When the motorists at your back shoot off like they just heard the gun on the Indy 500.

Also have heard many a story about inattentive drivers running into the back of stationary cyclists(at varying speeds) patiently awaiting the signal change..

I mean seriously, how can sitting at the front of traffic at a red light be more dangerous than illegally jumping it?

Don't forget incidents like that one on Kingsland Rd, where a cyclist obediently waiting at a red light was taken out by an HGV.

If one of those pulls up beside me at lights, I'll pre-empt the lights as much as possible, just in case the HGV driver has failed to notice me before their blindspot has cloaked me.

Don't forget incidents like that one on Kingsland Rd, where a cyclist obediently waiting at a red light was taken out by an HGV.

If one of those pulls up beside me at lights, I'll pre-empt the lights as much as possible, just in case the HGV driver has failed to notice me before their blindspot has cloaked me.

Nine times out of ten I wait and then pre-empt the light change by about ten seconds just to be sure as to get in front of the cars and to be seen. Typically as I hear their engines rev I drift over to let the cars pass. I jump lights but i don't jump them into oncoming traffic because I ain't that stupid and I rarely go within ten foot of a HGV. Then again you barely see an HGV in Paris?

1.) it is not a safe generalization to say running red lights is less safe than sitting at them. It's not always a risk to slow down, look both ways, and keep going. It's a risk to trust drivers and it's a risk to make bad judgments and assumptions about what traffic will do, there are intersections where running the light isn't worth it. 9 times out of 10 IMHO running a red gets you away from traffic patterns and onto streets less crowded by cars. IMHO running a red and riding aggressively in general is usually the safest option. IMHO it is often highly dangerous to sit at a light waiting for it to turn green while aggro car drivers get more aggro about having to wait. I for one choose to separate myself from cars however possible.

I agree, although I would say 'assertive' not 'aggressive'. It is definitely safer to be in front of traffic and be seen. Therefore, if there is no cross-traffic it is safe to ride through and get a head-start on those behind. I normally do this and find that I ride large stretches of road with hardly any vehicles as a result.

Assertive riding primarily (to me) means holding the lane as if you were bigger. I do this too, I am often traveling as fast or faster than the cars around me - it's bad to hug the curb because then traffic will pass when it is not really safe for them to do so.

Aggressive riding though, well I'm not sure. That sounds a bit confrontational, I try not to be that. Basically, I try and practice 'invisible riding'. As in if the vehicles around me could not see me, would I be in trouble? That's how I make my decisions. You can't rely on people to see you, but you can rely on yourself.

So I never go down the left of a vehicle turning left. I never go down the left of an HGV, ever. Unless the lights have just gone red and I know he's stuck. If I cross a red at a crossroads I look for green ped lights on the cross traffic. That way I know nobody is gonna come across. When I pass peds, I always ride behind them. People do stupid things crossing the road, some hurry, some stop dead. Ride behind them - Iv'e never seen one walk backwards yet!

The only time I'm aggresive is towards idiots who don't pay attention. Nine times out of ten it's people in cars trying to merge who just didn't see me. I ride close to the center to avoid this anyway, but when it happens I dip round and show the finger, then ride on...

We've all found ourselves in tight spots on the road and thought... "shit this this stupid". That's when you learn. Mostly it's not your own fault.. so you learn to be wary and keep distance. But mistakes happen. It's risky business darting around city roads on a push bike, that's for sure. I can only recommend people get stuck into forums like this one, where information and advice on safe riding is everywhere. Hope that guy is okay.

Awh man That Junction can be a nightmare at times.

Thoughts go out to the rider and wish him a well recovery

the roads are safest when everyone using them behaves predictably.

+1

Hope the rider and driver are both OK.

Don't forget incidents like that one on Kingsland Rd, where a cyclist obediently waiting at a red light was taken out by an HGV.

The thing is, we remember such incidents because they occur so infrequently as to be memorable and with enough human impact as to be newsworthy. I'd argue that citing such incidents are counter-productive to discussion as their anomolous status is at odds to what we will expect to happen.

I ride by my own experience and, as such, I'm mostly a boringly lawful cyclist who mostly observes red lights and most of the myriad laws that are designed to control the passage of cyclists on the streets. All I can offer on this discussion is that for the most part I don't feel unsafe by doing so and it's been a long time since I was taken down. I'm not a talented or especially good cyclist but I think very little of my survival is down to luck.

I also don't prejudge drivers either.

Best wishes to the rider.

This really isn't about red light jumping. This is about paying attention and doing whatever is safest in any circumstance.

This is something you learn, you learn which way what traffic is coming from/going to in every intersection, you learn how much time you need to cross a certain distance, you learn what clothing you can wear while cycling and still be safe.

This guy, assuming that he is ok, has hopefully learned allot. All of you, please, keep your eyes open, anticipate what is going to happen next, watch the cars and the cyclists around you, make safe decisions. Don't just assume that because the light is a certain colour you will be safe, or that because your riding a good bike with good brakes, or because you are wearing a helmet. Paying attention will keep all of us safer, make all of us better riders.

Basically, I try and practice 'invisible riding'. As in if the vehicles around me could not see me, would I be in trouble? That's how I make my decisions. You can't rely on people to see you, but you can rely on yourself.

+1

... It's risky business darting around city roads on a push bike, that's for sure ...

Maybe 'darting', but 'riding' a bike is not more risky than anything else in life.
I am sure more accidents happen on stairs at home, or while cleaning the kitchen.

Edit:
Forgot to mention: I hope the rider involved is alright soon.

Push bike?

Dude, only rookies with punctures push their bikes. I think most of us ride a pedal bikes.

if you are in that much of a hurry that you feel the need to not stop at busy junctions then leave a bit earlier.

I'm not sure it matters what vehicle you use, if your speed is more important than your safety, you're going to fuck up sooner or later. Any accidents I've been involved in directly or not are derived from someone (sometimes me) paying more attention to going fast than to being able to stop.

if you are in that much of a hurry that you feel the need to not stop at busy junctions then leave a bit earlier.

no difference to motorised vehicle drivers then!

well Darwinism is still in full effect.

Hope he learns from this.
Hope the driver doesn't become too unhinged towards cyclists because of this.

Push bike?

Dude, only rookies with punctures push their bikes. I think most of us ride a pedal bikes.

Push bike is the technical term for a bicycle used by the powers that be

no difference to motorised vehicle drivers then!

i didn't mention any particular type of vehicle. the same could be said for peds.