Formula One ( F1 )

.51g

...51g

51g

Gets all the headlines, but pretty meaningless without more details.

I wouldn't call peak decelleration of that magnitude a meaningless figure.

On a more popular note, I found it pretty hilarious hearing Horner talk about the size of the Mercedes advertising team vs the size of Red Bull's engineering team.

Coming from someone working for a marketing company that has 2 F1 teams.

I have less and less respect for Horner every day. He’s just a whiny prick.

I did say 'pretty' meaningless. There's plenty of stuff around for context, such as this...

https://www.thesportsman.com/features/like-surviving-a-car-crash-50-times-a-game-rugby-is-becoming-tougher-than-ever

Still, I'd say it's a pretty meaningful figure.

I'm not quite sure on the point of that article being brought up. I have no idea how a 50G car crash compares to a 50G rugby tackle in terms of risk of injury. On a tangential note though, it'd be interesting to see how the acceleration differs between their head (where the measurements were taken in the above article) and the body. I imagine the head gets the more extreme measurements (obviously I can see the reasoning for focussing acceleration on the head when it comes to sports like rugby & American football).

The variables you mention is exactly what I was getting at :)

I have no idea how a 50G car crash compares to a 50G rugby tackle in terms of risk of injury.

To give an idea, if an 85kg rugby player was running along at a fast 15 km/h and was subjected to 50g of decelerative force, it would take 0.0085 seconds for them to come to a complete stop, faster than their body could register*, and it would be like lying under a mass ≈4200kg.

*I fact checked, apparently our eye-brain connection can process information in intervals as fast as 0.013ms, so possibly faster than the player could perceive.

Sure, but in that example can I assume that 25G would be coming to a stop in 0.017 seconds?

I think most of us here would struggle to notice the difference between those 2 time periods even though 1 is twice the other.

And are human reaction times and perception times the same? I don't have any facts to prove it, but I struggle to believe that.

And are human reaction times and perception times the same? I don't have any facts to prove it, but I struggle to believe that.

Sorry, thought I was editing a post before submitting, so what I wrote might’ve changed between your response and now.

Adding - it’s unlikely than reaction time = perception, particularly as reactions require signals to go to and from the nervous system.

Sure, but F1 drivers tend to be a fair bit more constrained in the event of a crash. (For reference, it would also be interesting to measure the differences between those accelerations in an F1 driver, and compare those differences to the rugby player (or other contact sport participant))

I still think that peak deceleration is a decent metric to compare the severity of different F1 crashes. Far from being pretty meaningless IMO.

Regarding bodily constraint, I’ve read that one of the issues with grid iron football is that there’s no way of preventing the brain from jiggling around inside the skull in an impact (although proper hydration helps). I wonder what the stats are for race drivers and long term brain injury?

I think so!

But my main point was comparing accelerations of this magnitude often means looking at imperceptible changes in absolute time resulting in accelerations that are 2-3x larger.

It was kind of my point about comparing these measurements rugby to the same measurements in F1.

I suspect the difference between contact sports and motorsport is the frequency of the impacts. I've had one shunt that knocked me out, and one which left me a bit wobbly for a while, but that was in several years of racing. It's not like you're having your brain wobbled about week in, week out, plus training.

I'd imagine the NFL players get a lot more frequent heavy hits. I'd say most F1 drivers go through a season without a big crash (is it 25G that's the threshold for a medical centre visit?). Whereas I'm sure an NFL player will go through a fair number of hits in and around that region (at least according to the rugby article above) per game

I've got £20 here that says Max will "accidentally" crash into Hamilton tomorrow in a way that potentially takes them both out, so that Max (entirely coincidentally) takes the championship on number of race wins.

Anyone?

I'll bite, it won't happen.

Agreed, might've gotten away with it had it been the first point of contact between them this season.

Tsunoda on the other hand...

I really hope not.

I hope not as well. But the problem is Max's driving has become other driver's responsibility. If he drives exactly as he has in the last two races we may see an accident. There's little reason for him to change now.

I think it depends if he’s having to defend or not.

His overtake at the re-start was the move of the season I think.

I hope not.

He’s got every reason to risk it- take Hamilton out and he wins.