Locks that work

in the other topic he went on in such length on explaining why we shouldn't use chain, since they're all can be easily be cutted by a bolt cutter from a fire station (including a youtube video showing a person cutting chain using a bolt cutter off a motorbike's front wheel.

I kinda disagree as locking it carefully (i.e. tight as possible, high up from the ground) can make it pretty secure.

Really Dylan? Even 16mm and now 19mm chains?

I didn't list the more common 11mm or 13mm chains on purpose.

Which 16mm chain have you had fail on you?

they are better i give you that, but you wont see me using them.
They are much easier to crop, even the 16mm ones, which are inconceivably heavy metal monsters to carry around.

in the other topic he went on in such length on explaining why we shouldn't use chain, since they're all can be easily be cutted by a bolt cutter from a fire station (including a youtube video showing a person cutting chain using a bolt cutter off a motorbike's front wheel.

I kinda disagree as locking it carefully (i.e. tight as possible, high up from the ground) can make it pretty secure.

what i said was that chains are not as secure as D locks are.
Use them if u want. Do whatever, just putting it out there, the info upon people preconceptions on chians.

what i said was that chains are not as secure as D locks are.
Use them if u want. Do whatever, just putting it out there, the info upon people preconceptions on chians.

You think the reason this thread was created was arbitrary, and the info included is gathered randomly? Dylan, you are a strange fruit.

16mm is the base standard for a reason. My recommendation of the biggest and heaviest are also for a reason. Your putting info out there, is actually the random part of this thread.

If you actually have no personal knowledge of 16mm chains and their destruction, when connected to bicycles, then maybe we'll wait for that. If you don't mind. THAT is info that would be useful to put out there.

they are better i give you that, but you wont see me using them.
They are much easier to crop, even the 16mm ones, which are inconceivably heavy metal monsters to carry around.

Yes Dylan, but the fact that YOU won't use them, means nothing really.

16mm chains easier cropped than maybe 13mm U-locks for example? Oh yeah? Link please.

Also, didn't you read this, post 43, of this thread? It categorically states that these chains are so heavy, that they are best left in the place where someone means to lock up their bike. Carrying such a chain around is positively NOT recommended.

I just bought the Fahgettaboudit Mini d as a smaller option to the massive abus one I have been dragging around with me, and whilst it is smaller, it weighs nearly twice as much! like almost 2kg. Not sure if I would have bought it it I realised the weight. hmmm, shall i send it back?

I have a Kryptonite M18 New York Lock. It weighs getting on for three kilos. That said, I would happily leave my bike unattended even in Bethnal Green locked up with it.*

*If I used it - it's too heavy to carry around so lives ina drawer at the office.

you'll get used to the weight mate,

I put it in my bag on the way to work this morning and you dont realy notice the difference - I will stick with it for a while. Do cavendish do the holster thingys?

On the subject of big chains - look out the video of Captain Cropper having a pop at an Almax III. Given he a) can't cut it and in fact hardly marks it and b) buggers up a very expensive set of jaws on his 42" croppers in the process I'm pretty confident in its ability to keep my bike safe. That said, I'm using a Krypto M18 at the moment as the Almax is just too much to carry with a cracked rib.

I put it in my bag on the way to work this morning and you dont realy notice the difference - I will stick with it for a while. Do cavendish do the holster thingys?

yes they do, but I don't know if they have those newer one that designed for specific lock;

http://www.fabrichorse.com/index.php?page=shop

The Fah Mini is very thick, I have to cut off the plastic coating just so it fit nicely in my lock holster that's designed for an Evo Mini.

You think the reason this thread was created was arbitrary, and the info included is gathered randomly? Dylan, you are a strange fruit.

16mm is the base standard for a reason. My recommendation of the biggest and heaviest are also for a reason. Your putting info out there, is actually the random part of this thread.

If you actually have no personal knowledge of 16mm chains and their destruction, when connected to bicycles, then maybe we'll wait for that. If you don't mind. THAT is info that would be useful to put out there.

hold on GA2G, were only talking about chains here, no fucking need to get all gobby.

on you tube there is a company called Almax, which cropped through all the best alternative chains to their own using a cropper.
these were seriously expensive motorbike chains, ones that you wouldn't want to carry around with you cos they weigh a ton.

that's enough evidence for me not to buy chains.

hold on GA2G, were only talking about chains here, no fucking need to get all gobby.

on you tube there is a company called Almax, which cropped through all the best alternative chains to their own using a cropper.
these were seriously expensive motorbike chains, ones that you wouldn't want to carry around with you cos they weigh a ton.

that's enough evidence for me not to buy chains.

I dont use a chain but prefer U locks so can't really comment on there effectiveness but I think on that alax vid they claim to be cutting through a fug chain when it's on a foursided link when eveyone knows the links on fug chains are six sided- so personally i wouldnt really trust there little sales advert

Dylan, the almax immobiliser is the chain that I was going to buy and leave on the roof at work, not carry round, and use a fag d-lock as well. You said that was a fail. But the thread says that would be good and the evidence on you tube suggests the same. I'm confused?!?

yes they do, but I don't know if they have those newer one that designed for specific lock;

http://www.fabrichorse.com/index.php?page=shop

The Fah Mini is very thick, I have to cut off the plastic coating just so it fit nicely in my lock holster that's designed for an Evo Mini.

Ed that is such a stupid thing to do, that coating is there for several good reasons!

Oh I know, I cutted it off half a years ago, I only found out the reason a couple months ago.

Getting the FACTS right: FOLLOWING CHAINS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED.

Its been said that ALMAX tested the best chains against their own, and theirs won, by some margin.
The test was NEVER like-against-like. None of the chains I've recommended in this thread were tested against.
None of the other chains were 16mm chains either. Here are the chains that Almax tested against:

Squire MC4/6 = 13mm
http://www.squirelocks.co.uk/html/motointro.htm
Abus Granit CityChain X-Plus = 10mm
http://www.abus.de/us/main.asp?ScreenLang=us&sid=7560846211652233004200914925421742&select=0105b02&artikel=4003318286254m
Oxford Monster = 12mm
http://www.oxford-shop.co.uk/item3143.htm
Abus Granite Extreme 59 = 13mm
http://www.abus.de/us/main.asp?ScreenLang=us&sid=7560846211652233004200914925421742&select=0105b02&artikel=4003318248481m
Datatool Python = 13mm
http://www.elitemotorcycleservices.co.uk/page59.html
Luma Solido Kit Duo Chain = 11mm
http://www.saundersonsecurity.co.uk/acatalog/info_KDA110G.html
Oxford Boss Chain = 12mm
http://oxford-shop.com/item3144.htm
Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit Chain = 11mm
https://www.kryptonitelock.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1000&scid=1002&pid=1169

I think that from what I have read so far, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cut a 16mm hardened steel chain link using hand/arm power. An angle-grinder, with enough time, will defeat almost any lock at all. But so far, it appears, that hand-portable bolt-croppers, can't cope with "hardened steel" with a diameter of 16mm or more.

Also worth mentioning something about hardening - there are three basic cases:

1) No/insufficient hardening. Easy to cut/crop, no matter how thick it is, as it's just too soft.
2) Through-hardened. The whole of the steel is hardened. This is worst case for cutting with eg a grinder, but a through-hardened chain is more at risk from impact and bending. Cutting one side of a link with croppers will cause the other side to snap too (avec pretty sparks) saving a lot of the thief's time.
3) Case hardened. The outer surface is hard, making cutting awkward. The interior of each link is (relatively) soft, which prevents brittleness under bending/impact. Also, cutting one side of a link with croppers will cause the other side to bend rather than break - thiefytwat now needs to perform a second cut on the other side of the link (albeit it may be slightly weakened now). Poor the thiefytwat.

Anyone tried one of the Xena Bullett XUL series locks listed up there ^^^? Not sure about the alarm thing, but they look ace. Not sure about stainless steel compared to case hardened steel as far as security goes and not being rubber covered they'll scratch the crap out of your bike. Might stick to a Kryptonite NY Mini...

just thought i'd say - not sure if it is nationwide but - tk maxx in manchester is selling some fairly hefty oxford chain locks atm for about £20, think they were half price. they were less bulky than my krypto chain but seemed good for a £20 lock, better than a cable.

snoops, those chains might not be too bad, but so that no-one gets confused, I'm making sure that this thread is about locks that don't do much in the way of compromises.

Minimum "safe" standard, as per this thread, is 16mm for U-locks (with one exception), and 16mm also for chains. Those cheap Oxfords you mention are probably nearer 10mm, so definitely not recommended, as they can be quite easily cut by bolt-croppers.

looks like i got a bit carried away swallows pride and admits he's a tensy bit wrong

On further scrutiny, it does seem that some chains, namely the ones that GA2G suggested, are equivalently secure to the D-locks also suggested, if properly used i.e. not left dangling across the floor making it easy to attack with sledge hammers and the like.

tally ho

dylan

snoops, those chains might nor be too bad, but so that no-one gets confused, I'm making sure that this thread is about locks that don't do much in the way of compromises.

Minimum "safe" standard, as per this thread, is 16mm for U-locks (with one exception), and 16mm also for chains. Those cheap Oxfords you mention are probably nearer 10mm, so definitely not recommended, as they can be quite easily cut by bolt-croppers.

+1

Thanks GA2G, this thread is very useful and I'm glad you're keeping it fact based, I think I've made up my mind now! cheers ears.

chains are only as strong as their weakest link. and since chains are linked together with mini versions of mini d-locks or padlocks (that arent has strong as the rest of the chain), the only thing using a chain has going for it vs. a quality d-lock is versatility. But since they're more cumbersome to carry, I hold the opinion that the quality d-lock wins.

if a kryponite fahgettibouditt d-lock can be cut, then so can the locks that hold chains together, thus they are generally equal in security (a fahg d-lock vs fahg chain, for example). So, all in all, it's a personal choice of convenience. I find it more convenient to carry a d-lock in my belt/bag than to lug around a heavy chain. I only really lock up to proper racks or parking meters, so a chain is unnecessary for me.

The locks that tend to come with 'cycling' security chains are pretty rubbish compared to the locks that Torc Anchors sell with their Prgamasis chains. There are padlocks, and there are padlocks...

Anyone tried one of the Xena Bullett XUL series locks listed up there ^^^? Not sure about the alarm thing, but they look ace. Not sure about stainless steel compared to case hardened steel as far as security goes and not being rubber covered they'll scratch the crap out of your bike. Might stick to a Kryptonite NY Mini...

AdamM, to be honest, I had my misgivings about using Stainless Steel to make a U-lock.

But upon looking up various types of steels, and the strengths of them, I came across info on Wikipedia that claims that Stainless Steel has a very similar Ultimate Strength to titanium, though of course, for the same size, titanium is far lighter. There is a chart halfway down the page.

Wiki: Tensile Strength

I can now say that I would trust the Xena Bullett XUL series; and I think the alarm is a brilliant touch.

Stainless steel has excellent anti-corrosive qualites also.