Locks that work

That is rubbish, sorry to hear that. What is the logic behind the policy? Unsightly locks?

Good idea, I will do this next time.

I'd maybe use an email address, i wouldn't want my phone number being used for pranks by kids or anything

I'll use your phone number - email me if the lock needs moving?

Unfortunately, I'm not an engineer, so do not have the means to test them. I am a security professional, that normally works within a corporate environment - designing and implementing security procedures for large companies. This thread was just a community spirited effort on my part.

I can acknowledge that when I first started compiling info for the thread, your company was one prominent source of comparative information. I trusted it, and was right to do so.

Glad to have been a help. We are pretty un-biased wrt locks & D-locks and are genuinely interested in what is good and what isn't for real-world situations. I am rather limited in what I can say about some things as I can't give thieves tips on weaknesses in certain products etc, and I don't want to get sued by stating an opinion borne out through our own experience. Suffice it to say, though, that of the D-lock manufacturers mentioned in this thread, I would only consider buying a D-lock made by Squire (high-end of the range), Kryptonite (ditto), or Abus (ditto), and Artago have some good D-locks, too (but probably too heavy for bicycle use). I will also add that there is a huge difference between good quality tools, used properly, and not. I do smile about some of the attack times quoted as some of the magazines etc are not very good at testing ;-) I echo guidance here that cheap locks are generally not appropriate for expensive bikes and can be a false economy. Police guidance is you should budget 10-15% of the item's value on its security.

I hope that helps.

I guess if people are interested and if you don't mind posting me the shackle from your D-lock, I could do a comparative cut-test to get an idea how long it takes to cut the shackle (again) on that Kryptonite lock versus some others, such as the Squire Hammerhead. We have cordless and mains-powered angle grinders and I could give some timings if people think that is useful??

I am not sure if this is really useful, and am concerned about giving thieves information. Nothing is truly likely to stop a grinder with the right kind of disc, if it is being used properly. Re the latter, whoever was using the grinder in the other photo, with no face/eye/anything protection, was taking a b-i-g risk. We always use a full-face visor, leather gauntlets and a leather apron. The cordless grinders are weedy in comparison with the mains ones but even they can cause a bad injury if the disc shatters etc.

I hope this enthusiasm doesn't turn into Captain Cropper YouTube videos. I find such displays hard to bear. The witless captain Cropper, though well meaning, is such a tragically lonely person that one can only feel sorry for him......not educated by him.

I would honestly abandon this thread totally, if it started heading in the look-at-me, look-at-my-cutting-tools direction.

Are you interested in the advantages of a superior cylinder in your locks such that you could have a D-lock for portable security and a chain & padlock back at home, and maybe a third lock on your shed door, with all locks on the same key ("Keyed Alike" in the jargon)?

I'd never even thought of this... How far could you go with this, could you have the same key for your house, padlock and bike locks?!

Would it lesson the security of a double lock of both locks had the same key?

Also I wonder how much it was cost just to be carrying around three or four less keys?

Also ga2g, is there a reason why none of the folding locks are mentioned? Like the abus bordo? I don't have the abus but have one like it that i find useful.

Folding locks = multiple weak points.

Oh I'm not saying they are perfect, but are they weaker than all the chain locks out there? Or more to the point shouldn't there be some kind if mention of them in the first post?

I have two kryptonite d's, 2 chains and a folding lock... They are on different bikes, but the folding is the one I carry in my bag, in terms of versatility I find it very useful. (But it is the secondary lock to something better that's attached to my bike if the bike is worth anything)

Oops, just seen the 2ndary locks thread... With the comment about folding locks... As you were.

Too weak to be in the lists. Good against bottle-jacking, but not a hammer.

I'd never even thought of this... How far could you go with this, could you have the same key for your house, padlock and bike locks?!

Would it lesson the security of a double lock of both locks had the same key?

Also I wonder how much it was cost just to be carrying around three or four less keys?

No idea about the security aspect beyond it suddenly being more expensive if you lose your keys and need to replace your locks, but my gut feeling is it makes no difference at all, as a thief isn't going to pick your lock, and even if they do, they won't know that the second one is pinned the same.

I've got my back door and garden gate on one key (and if I'd chosen a different cylinder from the same manufacturer could get padlocks as well), my front door (two different locks) and several padlocks on another key, and four Squire D-locks on a third.

As Steve/Pragma says above, the Squire 6-pin cylinder was available for padlocks and D-locks, and I can't see any reason in principle why it couldn't also be made for door locks (Euro, oval or Yale-type cylinders at least) though I'm pretty sure Squire don't offer this.

Cost for keyed-alike is generally about a fiver more per lock, but you generally can't get them from discount suppliers. (Eg when I looked at the Squire Urban Paramount, it was RRP £55, available from Parker for about £33, and available from Pragmasis/Almax for about £45 or £48, plus a fiver for keyed alike. I wanted four, so that was going to be about £80 more.)

What does save money is being prepared to learn a bit about how locks work and then take them apart. My front door locks and padlocks are Ingersoll - I've bought all except one of the door locks on ebay, taken them apart, and moved the levers around to match an existing key. Similarly with the Squire D-locks I've got - bought on ebay for £20 each, and I've taken them apart, shuffled the pins, and now I've got three Urban Paramounts and a Paramount Plus that all work on the same key.

You do need to be a bit lucky with the locks you get hold of, and really logical with working out which pins or levers should go in which position, but there are generally only going to be four or five different sizes of pin for a given cylinder, so the range is restricted, and you can tell which is which from the keys you have. You can even leave out pins/levers if you need to - makes the lock a bit less secure, but an attacker won't know. (A couple of my Squires now have five pins in the cylinder, not six. The extra risk is marginal.)

I must admit, I'm really pleased to hear the good words said about Squire above - I've had a couple of the old Paramounts (which I think were just rebranded as Urban) for years. One of them's resisted a twisting attack with a length of scaffold pole (props to the Hardie Secure wall anchor as well), while another caused the fire brigade a bit of grief when my ex lost her keys and asked them to cut her bike free.

On another note, what would the panel suggest for a really, really lightweight lock? Cafe lock, basically: I'm happy to make major compromises on security for this but if I'm out on a long ride would like something a little better than the pound-shop cable I currently have. Bike may be out of sight, likely to be next to nicer ones, unlikely to be in a high-risk area or unattended for more than 20 mins or so.

See the Secondary Locks thread. Your answer is there, as pertains a lighter lock.

I would honestly abandon this thread totally, if it started heading in the look-at-me, look-at-my-cutting-tools direction.

Don't worry, I have no intention of going anywhere near that! I have very mixed feelings about a lot of those videos as, although they may not show anything that experienced thieves don't already know, I suspect they may be helping proto-scrotes to get ideas we'd all prefer they didn't.

There has also been a lot of misinformation in amongst several of those; slagging off Sold Secure when using motorbike-thief tools to defeat Bicycle-Gold rated locks. Doh! Of course big bolt croppers will cut small chains in a trice. If people need motorbike-level security, they shouldn't even consider bicycle-level-only locks! I think Sold Secure don't help themselves there by having different 'Gold' levels, but it's not that complicated at the end of the day and they do provide a useful gauge to help people buy what they need. Even Caravan Gold (the highest rating for chains etc) is not a guarantee of infallibility; these are just supposed to give an indication of what will stop an average thief at each level and within the given time limit.

I'd never even thought of this... How far could you go with this, could you have the same key for your house, padlock and bike locks?!

Would it lesson the security of a double lock of both locks had the same key?

The only security weakness is if you lose your key, as then all keyed-alike locks are compromised. Hence, not a smart option if you regularly lose stuff!

It is actually possible to use a cut-down 'Euro' cylinder in various of Squire's padlocks, where Euro cylinders are the things in modern double-glazed doors. However, it does need a special version of the padlock and you have to cut the double-sided Euro cylinder in half to get it to fit. We've never gone that far for ourselves. Having the locks for the bikes, the shed, the motorbikes (when we had them), the trailer and various other things all on one key was and is brilliant. We also have the house front and back doors and the personal door on the garage all on a common key (although different to the padlocks). Bad news if you lose your keyring, but it would still be bad news if that keyring had 6+ keys on it rather than 2.

Also I wonder how much it was cost just to be carrying around three or four less keys?

That's the rub, where Squire charge an extra £8.40 RRP for each keyed-alike option. We do them a touch cheaper than that but it can still be expensive. Being able to do it retrospectively, to add a matching lock to one that was purchased a year ago, for example, is quite neat. It only works across compatible cylinders, though, as I mentioned before. Some locksmiths can do it while you wait, though, but they often charge top-whack for the locks. Even so, once you've done it you've got a usability benefit every day, and I suppose your trouser pockets last longer ;-)

I have just got my hands on a bulldog mini. Comparisons to the mini evo are interesting. I will make a little comparison with pics in the secondary thread later.

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What does save money is being prepared to learn a bit about how locks work and then take them apart. My front door locks and padlocks are Ingersoll - I've bought all except one of the door locks on ebay, taken them apart, and moved the levers around to match an existing key. Similarly with the Squire D-locks I've got - bought on ebay for £20 each, and I've taken them apart, shuffled the pins, and now I've got three Urban Paramounts and a Paramount Plus that all work on the same key.

Interesting, I've got a few old locks with either lost keys or rusted... I'll see if I can take them appart.

See the Secondary Locks thread. Your answer is there, as pertains a lighter lock.

Hmmm. I did look there, but didn't find an answer. There's lots of good stuff there on locks that are good enough to use as a secondary urban lock, and light considering the security they offer.

My priorities are different - as I said, I'm looking for really light, and relatively secure considering how light it is. It won't be used in any high risk situations.

That does not really get covered by either thread as the weight you are looking for means major compromises on security.

I know the sort of thing you are doing as often I am in a beer garden in a quiet pub in the peak district with the bike round the corner/out of sight etc...
Although heavier than your pound shop special, try looking at the small alarmed padlock options. Fitted to your chainrings can render your bike unrideable but a scrote could still run off down the street pushing it. Not great so anything remotely risky (eg small town) and I stick a mini evo in the rear jersey pocket.

Added the Artago lock to the list, as recommended by Pragma. It seems very superior, but more pricey than I'd expect, for an unknown brand (in the UK). Nearly £120 is a lot of money. Its Sold Secure Gold for Motorcycles, so its good enough for us.

Hi all,

I've recently bought a very expensive (£5k) road bike and need a bit of advice to be able to secure it effectively. So far I've found this thread the best resource with regards to security :)
The bike will be kept indoors during the night, but I'll need to secure it while being 'out and about.'

My thoughts were to use the following:

1) Mini Fagh
2) Abus Granit X54 (230mm version)
3) Pitlock skewers, seat bold and headset bolt
4) a good cable + Krabus XL505 or a Xena XZZ6 disk lock

Is this overkill? Do you have any further suggestions?

Thanks,

Rakesh.

are you rakesh roshan?

Added the Artago lock to the list, as recommended by Pragma. It seems very superior, but more pricey than I'd expect, for an unknown brand (in the UK). Nearly £120 is a lot of money. Its Sold Secure Gold for Motorcycles, so its good enough for us.

It is a good lock, but beware that Artago seem to have a funny idea about how to quote their dimensions. We have one of their 320mm long D-locks here and it is actually about 320mm from part of the lock body to the top of the shackle, so the normal, inside, measurement is actually closer to 295mm. They quote the 85mm internal width and that is correct. I imagine the 270mm model is actually closer to 245x85mm internally, although I can't confirm that as we haven't got one here.

These are also heavy: the 320mm one is 2.73kg.

Good locks with 18mm thick shackles, and the unusual sizing might actually help in some situations. Expensive, though (and keyed-alike is not practical at all).

Do you have any further suggestions?

Riding a 5k bike around town?? I would make a point of not taking any locks with me in case I was even tempted to leave it out of my sight.