Oh no... Duffy gets on her bike in Diet Coke spot

It was in jest, but yeah in simple terms I think everyone lives a in a little bubble and the little bubbles come together to form a big bubble of reality. Anything outside of the bubble is largely irrelevant and everyone is responsible.

+1

But then as already stated advertising is an enormously easy target to get on your moralistic high-horse about.

On a slightly separate but related note I remember having a conversation with some art students who were slagging off advertising to the hilt. Pointing out to them that if they wanted to be successful during their own lifetime as artists they would have to get used to the idea of selling themselves - Damien Hurst, Tracy Emin and Chris Ofili are all great examples of artists who also know how to manipulate media and sell. Or, great examples of leading, modern, british artists. Or, both. Again depending upon personal interpretation...

You say successful when I think you mean 'commercially successful'; that the distinction is not at the front of your mind says something about how thoroughly you have taken advertising's warped values to heart.

oh i really, really love this book! you just have to get going with it is all.

Underworld is an incredible novel. The first setpiece was so monumental that I couldn't get past it for about a year. I knew I had to make sure I read the book when the time was right. Then I remember getting halfway through with about 500 pages left and being elated I still had so much left because I was so gripped. Of 1000 pages, possibly two could have been improved on.

It's a shame if you found it tedious and unreadable; for me it's going to remain one of the most enthralling reads of my life. I read loads; it still stands out. In the wake of 9/11, new resonances emerged which lent it an almost prescient quality. For a while that was mind-blowing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4HZ2XjH0Q

Fucking horrible advert.

jesus hubert, who encouraged her to sing? you guys are arguing about the wrong product here... how the hell did they market that death-rattle voice?

Man, there's some oddballs making money out there these days.

You say successful when I think you mean 'commercially successful'; that the distinction is not at the front of your mind says something about how thoroughly you have taken advertising's warped values to heart.

Will, of course what I'm saying sounds horribly cynical and commercial. However, you'd be surprised by how many young artists also see being commercially successful as highly desirable and a mark of simply 'success' within itself, after all the two are inextricably entwined.

It honestly pains me to see so many talented people whether they be musicians, painters, sculptors, whatever, get sweet fa for their efforts while agents, producers, and dealers coin it in. Who would you rather benefits financially from your efforts as an artist, yourself in your own lifetime or rich collectors/dealers in a hundred plus years from now? Now to me that's truly cynical and says far more about the nature of commerce than it does about art.

I do know that many of my friends who also went to art school are now teaching part-time, still painting/sculpting when spare time allows, still trying to get into the well-known galleries, and generally struggling a bit. And still very aware of the fact that without major exposure their audience will mostly be their mates and a handful of art enthusiasts. As artists they, quite naturally, want as many people as possible to be exposed to their work and the best way to do that within the art establishment is to get into the big galleries, if they can achieve that then media coverage and commanding bigger prices go hand in glove.

Suffering for your art can be hopelessly romantic at best and unnecessarily soul-destroying at worst.

It was in jest, but yeah in simple terms I think everyone lives a in a little bubble and the little bubbles come together to form a big bubble of reality. Anything outside of the bubble is largely irrelevant and everyone is responsible.

I suppose the problem is that you're not really defending advertising, you're just rejecting objective truth, absolute values, etc.

That's fine (as it happens I don't believe in objective truth or absolute values either), but the same, highly simplistic argument can be extended to defend anything. Maybe the consumer likes her broken Unipack, thanks to advertising?

*The chocolate ration has increased to 20 grams!

We've always been at war with Eastasia!*

As well as encouraging a culture of consumerism, your defence works equally well in justifying the planting of news stories by PR agencies and the propaganda of totalitarian regimes.

I'm going to include the words "reductio ad absurdum" here, because I want Oliver to post the exploding head thing again.

Differentiation should not be achieved through advertising... it should be achieved through difference. Advertising should communicate selling points, not create them.

A good illustration of "real value" versus "false value" would be to imagine a hypothetical situation in which advertising is used to inflate the price of a Unipack beyond that of a Giant Bowery. The Unipack weighs a ton and isn't very durable - it's true value is indisputably lower than the Bowery. The price increase from the advertising in this case would be "false value".

I imagine that you would argue that it is actually "real value" to the consumer who has bought something that they consider "desirable", despite the fact that the desirability is entirely concocted. There is definitely a grey area to be explored here, which is why fixing the value of something (as opposed to the price) is such a challenge. However, just because the line is blurry doesn't mean that it doesn't exist - there is a sensible value there and ultimately it does no good to society to sell goods or services priced wildly away from their value.

Colnago Primavera (Alu frame, 105, Mavic Wheels) - £1271.99
Giant Defy 1 (Alu frame, 105, Mavic Wheels) - £970

The Colnago is actually made by Giant too, shows the power of branding. £300 extra for having Colnago stickers on your bike.

I suppose the problem is that you're not really defending advertising, you're just rejecting objective truth, absolute values, etc.

Who's defending advertising? I was simply trying to point out that the giant/evil/despicable ad-man and the recuperation of detournement that comes from advertising is simply a reflection of the individual decisions we make every day: Statements that are "just a joke", an inability to give to charity, accepting established rules/ways, arrogance, indifference, etc.

but the same, highly simplistic argument can be extended to defend anything. Maybe the consumer likes her broken Unipack, thanks to advertising?

My simplistic jest does not equal a simplistic arguement, but I'm aware of your point.

I'm going to include the words "reductio ad absurdum" here, because I want Oliver to post the exploding head thing again.

I may use backwards logic at times, but it makes more sense to me than attacking outward elements of society before looking within yourself for the very same qualities. (This is not aimed at anyone, I just think a lot of anti-consumerist bull is unfounded and unhelpful most of the time, be the change and all that...)

So we get the advertising we deserve and we're all responsible for it? And therefore we shouldn't criticise it?

By analogy, if you cast your vote for a political party that doesn't win then you are 1) responsible for their loss 2) unable to criticise the party that won.

All this thinking is making me thirsty for a low-calorie beverage.

jesus hubert, who encouraged her to sing? you guys are arguing about the wrong product here... how the hell did they market that death-rattle voice?

I always asked myself the same question about Cerys Matthews, but I have to say that Duffy sounds a lot worse still. :(

Indeed, Diet Coke for the win... more inward bound links and successful views of the ad for them.

I'm clueless of a solution for any whingers, but the countryside and an aversion to media is a start.

+1

+2

But that's not what I said...?

Underworld is an incredible novel. The first setpiece was so monumental that I couldn't get past it for about a year. I knew I had to make sure I read the book when the time was right. Then I remember getting halfway through with about 500 pages left and being elated I still had so much left because I was so gripped. Of 1000 pages, possibly two could have been improved on.

It's a shame if you found it tedious and unreadable; for me it's going to remain one of the most enthralling reads of my life. I read loads; it still stands out. In the wake of 9/11, new resonances emerged which lent it an almost prescient quality. For a while that was mind-blowing.

just to carry on the Don Delillo sub-thread...

Well, Pjs - if you found it that good, i may just have to give it another go. It remains one of only 3 books I have started but not finished, so annoys me still because of that.
Mind you - I have just started a 1200 page sci-fi monster, so it may be a while...

That advert is awful, cant believe mother did it....

Is it me or does Duffy sound a bit like Pinky and Perky?

That advert is awful, cant believe mother did it....

Shame on her. My mum would never get involved with this sort of thing.

mypethip, that's one mighty high horse.

Latinate words overload.

[URL="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/tcmartin/scanners4.gif"][/URL]

Isn't his head supposed to explode?
Tsk.

Is this the sixth form common room?
Sounds just like it.
:-(

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a Taffy Duck

If you're jeens seem kinda tight, ditch that beer and have a Sprite!*

*contains 745cal per 100ml, not reliable for any weight gain or tooth loss. Medical cover sold seperately

damien hurst, tracy emin and chris ofili are all great examples of artists who also know how to manipulate media and sell. Or, great examples of leading, modern, british artists.

Haha.

ROFL
LMAO

Ewwwwww. I've just seen this . . . what a totally wank advert.

She sounds like a tin tray being dragged over an electrically charged metal grate, behind a herd of angry, violin playing, cats. after a dinner of gravel and bleach.