Are these people serious about being stopped

OK, sorry for being a bit slow in replying to all this. I've probably posted all of this before somewhere, but here goes.

what are the cycle lanes like were you are?? thats to every one btw
i was working in Hornchurch once and they had a cycle lane on one of the main roads which was ridiculous, i had my wheels about 2-3 inches away from the curb and my handle bars still stuck out over the line (standard mtb handlebars
i did get clipped by a white van which i thought broke my arm (luckily it didnt) and it winded me a bit, so now i ride on the pavement down that stretch or road because its too dangerous. im not getting flattened for no one

You need to learn correct road positioning. Riding in the gutter is no good for anyone and just encourages drivers to try and pass you. If you were taking the lane (riding in the middle, for example) the white van wouldn't have passed you.
Riding on the footpath is just daft and liable to get you fined and labeled a nuisance by the oldies that walk along it.

What hippy said--riding on the footway is not a good idea. See below.

sorry i dont get that
i was in the cycle lane like this one
http://www.ctcyorkshirehumber.org.uk/images/No4%20CFC.jpg
but the lane wasnt wide enough to get the handel bars in the lines
i think what you trying to say is if i rode with me wheels in the middle of the lane then it wouldnt of happened, its my fault.
they would of just went round me there not gonna wait for me are they
there wasnt any one on the foot path before i went on it
theres a long starit so i could see the next set of lights

a person, the first thing to know about cycle lanes is that you aren't required to ride in them at all. This may be surprising at first, but their use is actually strictly optional for cyclists, and there is no need for you at all to ensure that your handlebars are 'between the lines'. In fact, trying to stick to the lane markings is often the worst thing you can do, but it takes some riding skill to get it right.

I know what a bike lane looks like. The issue is: if you ride in the gutter, drivers will think they can pass you, whether or not it's actually safe for them to do so.
If you ride in the middle of the lane, drivers will need to wait for the opposite side of the road to become clear before they can pass. They will have a whole lane to use and you will have room to move left if they STILL pass too closely. It's doubly beneficial for you.

Get Oliver on here to explain it more clearly.

Your version will surely do. I don't really know what I could explain more clearly here, but I'll add some things. There are two kinds of cycle lanes, mandatory (solid line) or advisory (dashed line) lanes. The only difference is that motorists are not permitted to drive into and in mandatory lanes, whereas they are permitted to drive in advisory lanes. As I said above, you don't actually have to use lanes at all.

Lanes are often the first thing that people can think of when they wonder what could be done to improve cyclist safety, and some wide lanes can give people a feeling of greater comfort, but in practice they are not very helpful at all, as the crucial issue, the rider's position in the carriageway, is unnecessarily constrained by them--even if a rider doesn't keep to them, as users of private motor vehicles will often have an expectation that cyclists should stick to the lane. There is also evidence that many lanes cause a worsening of the safety record.

The good news is that if your positioning is confident and visible (i.e., don't ride in a timid 'I'm-not-really-here' manner), you run very little risk. The key is to communicate well (e.g., make eye contact), keep to a clear line, and generally treat traffic as a social environment. Motorists will respect your positioning. There is of course no reason to take the lane ('ride in the primary position') at all times, and you should be able to adjust your positioning relative to traffic, not to lane markings or kerbs. This is something that you'll learn quickly with the right method. And remember: You are traffic. You're a person needing to get from A to B and you have as much right as anyone else to be on the road. Be assertive and people will treat you well.

There are also other kinds of cycle facilities, including cycle tracks (e.g., kerb-segregated) or cycle paths (e.g., on-footway facilities). You don't have to use these, either. A famous case was that of Daniel Cadden:

http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=786

This case was won, preserving the all-important right of cyclists to ride in the carriageway or the general traffic lane where there are cycle facilities present.

Do ask any other questions if you need to!

I used to stick to cycle lanes when available but after a few people on here (mainly Oliver I think) said how they can encourage drivers to overtake when inappropriate I've stopped using cycle lanes and I've felt a lot safer on the road. It's really apparent when cycling in front of someone who hugs the pavement. Cars will box in the person behind while they wait to overtake me, wheras if both riders are away from the pavement, cars will wait until it's safe to overtake both at once.

Good to hear that you've had positive experiences with that! It's certainly worth pointing out that this sort of skill is not just a matter of 'book learning'. Adam's advice ...

And buy (or rent from the library!) and read a copy of Cyclecraft: http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/

It's very easy to read and a very practical guide to cycling on British roads. I guarantee everyone will learn something from it, no matter how long you've been cycling for.

... is excellent and pertinent, and should be coupled with some practical on-road cycle training. I know I sound like a broken record when I say this, but it's by far and away the best way of acquiring good riding skills. Call CTUK on 020-7231 6005 or visit http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/ to find out what's available where you live, work, or study. (There are also other providers like http://www.cyclinginstructor.com/ who deserve a mention, but CTUK are a good first point of contact.)

I think I'd be wary of merely applying a couple of selected habits/skills. Cycle training looks at your whole riding and you get assessed comprehensively for your strengths and weaknesses.

naive? hmmm. cyclists may be mentioned in the Highway Code but the fact is that the network is designed for the car.

Wrong. Have you ever ridden some of the streets in Old london town? The ones that have been there for hundreds of years? They were designed for horses and pedestrians, not cars.

Sano is quite right to pull you up on this, Texas, although what has of course happened is that the natural quality of service to cyclists of a lot of London's network has been reduced in 60-70 years of motor-centric engineering. The network was always very suitable for cycling and the only improvement that was required consisted of better carriageway surfacing, for which cyclists campaigned energetically in the early years.

The single most dominant influence on London's transport environment remains public transport infrastructure, but as so much of this is located underground, the townscape appears to have been influenced primarily by motor traffic. London's major gyratories, one-way streets, motorways, etc. represent major barriers to the growth in cycling and will need to be addressed before long.

There's no reason for gloom, as progress has been made in many locations, but it will be some time before regional planning guidance for London (the 'London Plan') will take into account the extremely strong need to achieve a more even spread of centres of activity and hence trip generators, reducing the need to travel.

But yes, even at the moment, cycling everywhere in London is easily possible given that London fortunately did not succumb to all of the post-war recommendations towards US-style transport infrastructure (Google 'Abercrombie Plan' or 'Greater London Plan 1944' if you want to know more). There are many permeability restrictions to cyclists, but at the same time a fine-meshed network that is fantastically suited to most journeys. We can always improve it, of course.

^^^ wow

Just use your loaf, if the ol' bill's about, don't jump. If they aren't, risk it.

that is one long post
cheers

On another note, driving across london town today was miserable.
I cried whenever I saw one of you lot on clerkenhipster road.
at least I got to see my gf's mum, and meet two lovely forumites.

And Oliver is an absolute hero.

blinkin' flip. he's good.

has anyone seen the really fat cycle-cop near camden? actually embarrassing.
anyway, on a serious note, i didn't even know about these fines and am slightly bemused, many of them seems to take away the freedom or advantages of being on two wheels.. that said, we should hardly be lawless, it's a toughy ..hmph.

Thank you all.

It is worth pointing out that I learned most of what I know from more experienced LCC activists, especially in the excellent Hackney group, my local group. It's all a big team effort and our members and staff do a huge amount of work every day to keep advancing the cause of cycling in London. It's not just me, by any stretch of the imagination.

The City of London police are completely seperate from the Met [.....] They're also funded differently so they've got a lot more resources than other police forces.

And different priorities. +1 though. Ive had basically that entire conversation with a charming met copper with a gun who had chased me down on a large motorcycle and was ticketing me for several simultaneous offences on oxford st (happily just the one ticket). Even the met have their doubts about city police sometimes, apparently. Theyre definitely much stricter on Cycling offences generally than the Met.

The bicycle cops are easy to outrun though (allegedly)...

On another note, driving across london town today was miserable.
I cried whenever I saw one of you lot on clerkenhipster road.
at least I got to see my gf's mum, and meet two lovely forumites.

And Oliver is an absolute hero.

It's always worth it to go see your girlfriend's mum.;)

There's far more people on BR who will love a good RLJ rant.. off you go.

but this is about cops stopping you thought yeah?

if you rlj and get caught it's you decision you can't whine and bitch about it... Well you can and people inevitably will but you got caught deal with it, look around more next time