Running

Destroyed a 10+something miler. It was muddy, celebrated with cake.

If you've seen it a few times, you must be either working out at an incredibly high intensity, or you're not hitting your max HR, in which case there's more to give which would then change your "zones".

Or I have a very small range within which I can work hard- 175-180 being said range.

At around 185 it feels like someone is cinching a band around my chest and I have to back off.

It would be ideal if I could raise "band-point" to 195 as that would widen my operating range significantly.

Or do some specific run training so that effective range was the pace you want to be.

From what I know of physiology, my way is possible and yours is not even with advance pharmaceuticals...

Yeah, not saying it's possible- just desirable.

What training would get me to sub 4 minute kilometers at my threshold HR of ~175?

This is a guess. I have no basis at all for it.

More.
More.
And then a bit more.
You need to set yourself runs of 10k where you do 1k on, 1k off type runs, then 2k on, 1k off, then 5k flat out, then up the distance.
Burst your lungs as much as you can.
Then circuits to prevent lopsidedness (where you lose core stability- something I'm really bad at- the marathon photos from last year are proof).
Then more running.

Hill/speed work done at the top end of threshold and keep going until your pace is c4min per km.

Or go with the swim training model, just repetitively do 10km runs at that heart rate, you'll get faster and faster over time and eventually you'll be doing 4 min kms.

It's not a speed that should be impossible for anyone with the right amount of effort, but that effort might be pretty enormous...

Was going to say, its usually good at saving whatever point it dies (I believe a GPX file just has continuous co-ordinates, so it doesn't need any particular info to say 'finish here'.

Unfortunately phone GPS can be a bit crap, yeah. What phone are you using ?

iPhone 4S

Went out before breakfast for my usual 10k. Phone battery almost dead but turned on strava hoping for the best. Went out hard and thought i'll keep at it as long as I can. It lasted all the way round, got home and picked my phone up and managed to read "44:"-something before the phone shut off.

So let's round upwards and call it a 45m 10k done. Didn't think it'd be that good, but I'm happy to surprise myself. This calls for big breakfast and burger lunch. With pint. or 2.

Might have to scrap that. Turned my phone back on and strava had saved the run. What was 9.7k last week was just 9.3 this week, though the runs were identical. The suggested time was 44:03 though.

Done some googling on strava accuracy and it seems to less than great. Time to get a garmin? Can't really be bothered with more gadgets though. Or maybe just scrap it all together and run for the sake of it.

Average pace according to strava was 4:38/km, which would make it a 46:20 10k. Seems more reasonable tbh.

Results are up.

Good fun, I'll do more of these.

Or go with the swim training model, just repetitively do 10km runs at that heart rate, you'll get faster and faster over time and eventually you'll be doing 4 min kms.

It's not a speed that should be impossible for anyone with the right amount of effort, but that effort might be pretty enormous...

This.

Interesting blog about setting or forgetting "goals":

http://training.hyweldavies.me/#post107

Or go with the swim training model, just repetitively do 10km runs at that heart rate, you'll get faster and faster over time and eventually you'll be doing 4 min kms.

It's not a speed that should be impossible for anyone with the right amount of effort, but that effort might be pretty enormous...

Keep doing what I'm doing- check!

Or go with the swim training model, just repetitively do 10km runs at that heart rate, you'll get faster and faster over time and eventually you'll be doing 4 min kms.

It's not a speed that should be impossible for anyone with the right amount of effort, but that effort might be pretty enormous...

this

I'm not sure any middle / long distance running coaches that advocate solely tempo running as a method for improving race times for 10k.

Most training plans will include speed work - for 10k that means 1- 2k intervals, 5 -8 repeats. Combined with tempo runs, race pace runs, and long slow runs

Your heart rate will hit whatever arbitrary target you may have for it if you smash the speed work heard enough.

If it's just a high heart you want - hill sprints, and high cadence, high speed, steep hill descents will see you right.

bru do you even run?

I'm all about the run chat the days.

I'm not sure any middle / long distance running coaches that advocate solely tempo running as a method for improving race times for 10k.

Most training plans will include speed work - for 10k that means 1- 2k intervals, 5 -8 repeats. Combined with tempo runs, race pace runs, and long slow runs

Your heart rate will hit whatever arbitrary target you may have for it if you smash the speed work heard enough.

If it's just a high heart you want - hill sprints, and high cadence, high speed, steep hill descents will see you right.

My suggestion was a little tongue in cheek, it would work combined with the base fitness that dammit gets from cycling, but you are correct. There are ways which will likely achieve his goal quicker...

Yeah, not saying it's possible- just desirable.

What training would get me to sub 4 minute kilometers at my threshold HR of ~175?

I can run 4 min kms at less than 170, and I am a heavy lump, with inefficient stumpy legs.

Should be very doable for you.

I would not be able to maintain this pace for more than 6-8 mins. If it where me, I'd add 1, 1.5, and then 2 km intervals at this pace into my weekly runs. To try and extend the time I can maintain it..

I have a nasty head cold, and it was bloody freezing out yesterday. So my lungs were burning. Still managed to set a PB of 5:48 up 418 steep ass steps.

Using this to be less of a blouse with regard to high HR.

Seems to be working.

I think the reason why the HR thing gets my goat so much is that it seems to be the limiter for my running- if it would just go higher I could go faster.

Whereas with cycling I hit my Vo2 max before "running out" of heart rate.

I know how to raise my threshold power on the bike whereas with running I run into a 185bpm wall.

I guess from what people have said that i need to work on efficiency so I can go faster at a lower HR, but that is annoying as I have to admit to the physical limit or 185.

Moan moan moan.

Anyone else do the Southern XC Champs on Sat? The Parly Hill Passchendaele was in full effect, muddiest race of the year as usual. And on the last lap, that thunderstorm hit. Feel sorry for the slowest guys, who bore the brunt of it.

I got round v slowly, had to finish as needed to pick up some points for the club, but am not popular with my back. More downtime beckons. le sigh

I think the reason why the HR thing gets my goat so much is that it seems to be the limiter for my running- if it would just go higher I could go faster.

Whereas with cycling I hit my Vo2 max before "running out" of heart rate.

I know how to raise my threshold power on the bike whereas with running I run into a 185bpm wall.

I guess from what people have said that i need to work on efficiency so I can go faster at a lower HR, but that is annoying as I have to admit to the physical limit or 185.

Moan moan moan.

I cant see your LTHR going up by a meaningful amount. You seem to have nailed that on the bike. Plus if you really can maintain 170 bpm. Then that should be enough.

My LTHR went up on Saturdays FTP test. By a full 12bpm. I suspect I have been a soft bastard the last few years.

I think the reason why the HR thing gets my goat so much is that it seems to be the limiter for my running- if it would just go higher I could go faster.

Unfortunately when you apply the rough science of 220-age you're on a path of diminishing returns re % of HR max as a target.

Once I race again with hrm I'd expect to hit 95%+ of 220-37 in 5k & 10k races, but only towards the finish.

Anyone else do the Southern XC Champs on Sat? The Parly Hill Passchendaele was in full effect, muddiest race of the year as usual. And on the last lap, that thunderstorm hit. Feel sorry for the slowest guys, who bore the brunt of it.

I got round v slowly, had to finish as needed to pick up some points for the club, but am not popular with my back. More downtime beckons. le sigh

I was out there. My first cross country; loved it although I have a pretty sore ankle today. Fortunately I was getting changed before the storm arrived; still got soaked on the walk to the pub.

Then on my recovery run yesterday I ended up calling the emergency services when a car hit a lamppost in forest hill. An interesting weekends running.