Running

“The idea being it trains the body to use what it's already got stored. No idea if there is any real science behind it but seems to work for me.”

That has totally been my MO too, and I do think there’s something in it. However I sometimes find i tank at about 20 miles and my calf muscles start cramping. Also it makes recovery frustratingly slow.

I’m gonna start hydrating better and eating earlier for sure.

I definitely run better after some food. My main evidence for this is: A recent 5k of 18.02 (around 60-90 seconds quicker than anything else recent) after eating some of the kids' dinner about an hour before running. Chips, in case you were interested.

It's important to get your kids into good habits early, right?

20 miles

20 miles is about the distance it takes to deplete the glycogen stores in the body. That's why most people hit the wall in the marathon around that distance, and it's why many runners plan on scoffing gels every 20 minutes (from early on).

I do all of my training runs up to HM distance on an empty stomach (as I do them earlyish in the morning). If it's warm I'll take a 500ml hand bottle of electrolyte with me otherwise I'll just drink 500ml of water/electrolyte about half an hour before setting off.

For HM distance to 30km I'll take 3-4 gels along plus the 500ml hand bottle of electrolyte.

For the last long run (usually 35km) I do 3 laps of Richmond Park using my bike as a stashing point for more gels and electrolyte. Each lap I'll aim to have 2 gels and 500ml of fluid as it's usually quite warm when I do this (April 6th or 7th this year).

If I wasn't doing laps of anything I'd carry the gels and electrolyte tablets with me and try and top up on the move. If you're training for ultras you could just stick the extra stuff in a backpack (it'd be ~2kg or so) which you'd probably carry on an ultra anyway (depending on how self-sufficient you need to be).

(I use SiS ISO Gels so I don't need extra water with them unlike the normal concentrated gels.)

Little club TT/handicap race tonight.
Ran better than I did at Nationals or at Ilkley 🙈
Absolutely buzzing, feels great to be firing on all cylinders - hopefully means my form is improving, rather than just a midweek fluke.

i tank at about 20 miles

What Greenbank said, you're depleting your glycogen supplies by that point. But if you slow down a bit from the start you'll be burning more fat throughout and the glycogen will last longer*. My ultra pace feels VERY easy when I set out (fresh, well fed and watered, well rested etc) but after 30 miles or so it feels a lot harder!

I don't find recovery too slow, I always drink on long runs which might help but always eat something as soon as I get in, and often use it as an excuse to eat whatever and as much as I like for the rest of the day :)
If you're cramping then try electrolytes in the water, during and after the run.

* There's a good explanation of this in the Hanson's marathon book. Actually the whole chapter on nutrition is really good.

I should add that during events I will eat something (energy ball, picnic egg, bit of flapjack, pretzel, gel...) every hour and use Tailwind powder in the water (electrolytes and sugar). Plus eat more if I start to feel hungry - generally only happens if the run goes over lunch time by a couple of hours.

Thanks @Greenbank I had a tentative look at some duathlon plans, gives me something to go off anyway.
That's encouraging also @fredtc . I think there isn't much speed work in my gfs plan, we're just upping volume gradually so let's see what happens.
I'll report back any roaring successes or crushing defeats

Should I be able to ramp up to a half marathon with her, while ramping my cycling fitness up to take part in some time-trials and crits etc?

Assuming you'll be complete over compete for the HM then this is very workable. The HM prep is very "time on feet" based, so you can put higher intensity work within some of your bike sessions to keep things sharp & prep you for TT's & crit racing where I'm assuming you'll look more at compete over complete?

complete over compete

As much as I'd like to set a good time it's looking like that's the sensible option given my overall 'goals', which basically comes down to being okay at bike

Am sure you'll put in a respectable time as a completer. You can then revisit for a pb when you're ready.

In other news:

https://www.fastrunning.com/opinion/comment/whats-tougher-5k-or-an-ultra-marathon/23769

https://theconversation.com/how-long-before-we-break-the-two-hour-barrier-in-the-mens-marathon-112505

Anyone else who cycles and runs have or had issues whereby lots of run training causes knee pain when cycling?

I only got into this running lark this time last year, and so far this year I'm commuting 30k over 2 days in a given week, and have done 1 half marathon and 2 10k races. My legs and knees feel great when I'm running.

However now I'm starting to up the cycle training I've been experiencing knee pain on the outside of my knee. I think the outside of the quad is over-developed and way too tight, and the inside of the quad is underdeveloped.

I'm currently addressing this relatively successfully via stretching and strengthening, but I'd like to be able to continue to run and cycle interchangeably without issues.

Any tips? I wonder if it might be a running technique issue whereby I use my outer quads way too much. Or am I just destined to always need to keep on top of stretching the outer quads and strengthening the inner quads?

Any tips?
Goto a physio.

They're not really comparable but I do think racing a 5k can be really tough! I often tell people I feel better after 50 miles than I do after shorter races. They're very different beasts!

Interesting article. I don't like the writer though. Sponsored athlete who isn't fast - jog on.

Having an awful time at work at the moment, but it’s doing wonders for my running - just got my 5k pb (23:05) because I ran as fast and furiously as I could away from the office, pavement dodging and all! Should really try Park Run at some point... Hurrah for shit jobs!

He does ok at the longer stuff, quite a way behind the faster runners over 5k though.

http://statistik.d-u-v.org/getresultperson.php?runner=87677

Anyone doing the Vitality Big Mile on Sunday?

It looks like you run down a big old hill for about a quarter of it

For years my missus has stated she hated running. Now she's started running. Just busted out 5k while I'm on the turbo. WTF?

Is it best to restrain her by the ankles or should I consider a full body harness system? #whatdoyoukeepinyourcellar

One in every 10 times (roughly - I'm not a psychopath) this thread pops up, I have a chuckle at the fact it was you who started it. Have never ventured back to see exactly what that first post says though

Running sucks?

Off to do the Imber Ultra today, heavy rain and 40mph winds forecast. Should be "fun"!

How did your interval training session go?

40mph winds forecast.

Depending on the direction you may be allowed to 'lean'...