Running

Is the South Downs marathon the 2.09 events? It definitely isn't flat if that's the one!

lol... the first half was fun though :-)

Missed all the "this year's running goals chat" but since we're talking ultras... My 2018 goal was to run an ultra, with my furthest run so far being London marathon, so I've entered Thames Trot (50 miles, Feb 3) and Endure 24 (24hr, June 9) with the idea that 100 miles would be nice.

Went to recce the first 25 miles of the TT course on Friday and couldn't resist continuing to Goring making it just over 30 miles. So that's my 2018 running goal achieved*, I've run an ultra! About 6:20 and managed to spend 20 mins stood still (peeing and map reading I guess) so there's time to save on the day. Hoping for a dry spell, in January, in England (I know), because the first 10 miles is very slippery with lots of unrunnable sections.
Actually felt mostly ok when I finished, got a bit overwhelmed by the choice in the newsagents for my post run refuel though...

* I do have a separate goal for E24 but I haven't told anyone that yet, it might be complete pie in the sky.

It is, and no, it's not!

I'm pencilling in 5 hours as a target

I'm trying to get into running a bit. Are there any good guides to follow as a total novice? I basically just want to learn how to run a few miles a couple of times a week without hurting myself. I work as a bike courier so would like to avoid being achey for days after a run. I went for my first run in a couple of years last week and my hips felt super tight a few days later. Ran a fair bit further today (just over 6km) so I'm worried about the consequences later in the week.

You could do a couch to 5k, but they're generally designed for people who are much less fit than the average cyclist - first week is stuff like "walk 5 mins". So your other option is to just wing it like I did and loads of others do, doing the obvious things like resting if you're injured or tired and stopping if you're in pain, same as on the bike.

Main point to be aware of is that it's extremely easy to overdo it; as a bike courier you'll have massive cardiovascular fitness but puny weak little knees, ankles, tendons and so on that cannot take the impact of pounding on concrete over and over again. You can run a planned 10k, decide that you feel great and want to carry on to 15k, feel fine all evening, then realise the next day that you've broken yourself. I think nearly every cyclist does this when they start running; I certainly did.

Basically just make sure you rest the moment you have the slightest inkling of an injury and although it's frustrating don't increase your distance by more than 10% a week (I'm pretty sure 10% is the recommendation but advise you do a bit of research rather than listen to me). In the first few weeks I'd suggest you do frequent short runs rather than infrequent long runs (ie. do 3 quick 2.5km jogs rather than the 6km run you just did).

When I transitioned from fit cyclist to novice runner (to get in shape for a marathon) I found Hal Higdon's plans useful, so maybe something like the novice 10k plan would be good. As mentioned, it's a matter of getting your running muscles/joints/tendons up to speed with your aerobic fitness, so always err on the side of easy pace, as well as building up distances gradually. Also don't just build up mileage of every run; get into a pattern of a weekly long run, with shorter runs to support it. Lengthen your "long" run out to 10k over a few weeks but keep in some 5k runs as well. After a few weeks you can build in the odd parkrun or faster tempo run, maybe 6k total with 3/4k in the middle at a quicker pace. But just building up the mileage for a few weeks at an easy pace, will itself increase the pace for any given effort.

Try to mix up the running surfaces to limit the stress. Tarmac's OK but grass is better.

Well it sounds like I'd have really fucked it if left to my own devices. The Hal Higdon plans seem a bit too structured for me, my schedule is all over the place so I can't really commit to doing certain things on certain days. The advice of not overdoing it on the mileage is handy though, I'd sort of thought that because I could run 6k quite easily I'd probably be alright to just go for a longer distance next time, I hadn't really thought about the need to build up the strength of my puny joints.

I guess all written plans look structured by their nature, but you can take a few principles that the Higdon plan uses:

• building one slightly longer run each week
  
• initially having at least one rest day or cross-training day in between running days; you can obviously do this off 3 days/wk, but then build-up to 4, then 5 days, by using the "hard/easy day" principle, in place of "run/rest day"
  I personally think there's some wiggle room with the 10% rule as well, i.e. build-up might be more step-like, e.g. step up to a 7k run, repeat the following week, if it feels easy and you've not had any niggles then step up to 8/9k (at an eeeaassy pace), even though it's strictly a bit more than 10%. Longer training plans for longer distances often have "cut-back" weeks as well; once you've started building up, have an easy week (just shorter runs, more rest days perhaps), which can help to recover from any niggles or tightness, before building up again.
  
  

I'm very loosely obeying my marathon training spreadsheet at the moment, which includes the reintroduction of target marathon pace tempo runs before Tuesday night intervals. Started last week and felt ok, so today's running double will be 19 miles total, 5 miles easy this morning, then this evening 3 mile jog to track, 2 miles @ 5:40/m (8 laps @ 85 secs), then 10 x 800m at whatever pace I can manage without straining too much, jog home.

Yeah, I agree re. the 10% stuff. If you're running 6k a week then increasing to 6.6k is a bit silly.

But @ltc it's your body and you know best. Most important thing is to skip a run if you feel like you're not properly recovered or feel like you're getting shin splints or have a dodgy ankle or whatever. Especially as you're not signed up for any events and there's no pressure to get fit in time. Be liberal with the time off.

Regarding plans, reaching half marathon distance might be a nice few-month's-time goal for you. You could try something like the BUPA plan. I have found the plans are pretty flexible; in your case you can just shift everything back by a day or two if you're especially busy. Or throw in random rest weeks (just try not to take more than 2 weeks off). Basically just have 7 or more days between your long runs and do some short runs in between them. I would recommend you do at least a couple of weeks of 2 or 3 shorter runs before you start that plan though as it's aimed at people who already run twice a week.

Another point I forgot to mention is if you're running in 10-year-old shoes they're going to eventually cause you problems. They have a lifetime and they may not be suited for your gait. Consider getting some new ones if that's what you've got. But you're probably fine with whatever for short distances.

Thanks for all the good advice, I feel like I've got a much better idea of what I should be doing. I'm not really planning to get into running to the point where I'm training for anything but I'd like to be able to be able to go for a run a couple of times a week without suffering at work the next day, the advice to not get over excited and start overdoing the distances is particularly helpful!

Just finished Running Hard by Steve Chilton, a history of the Wild v Stuart 1983 fell running season. Am happy to send on for a forum donation. Any interest? (it's probably one for the aficionado rather than the casual reader).

have you got a link so I could find out a bit more about the subject matter?

I thought I'd built up my running from a cycling background but my calf is now feeling worse for wear. Not a full on tear, but feels a bit strained & weak. Any suggestions apart from resting it and gentle stretching that will get me running again sooner? Signed up to the box hill fell race next weekend so hoping it'll be fine by then.

http://sandstonepress.com/books/running-hard

Just did a slow 5k to try and build up my resilience and weekly miles. More enjoyable that I thought it would be! Still got some tightness in hips and tiny knee twinges but they're better than ever and I'm stretching and working on strength.
Finding balancing runs, gym and cycling difficult but that's alright. At some point in the lead up to this 10k I'll sacrifice some cycling and then afterwards I can see the running dying off a fair bit.

I can see me running an Ultra.

Ftfy ;)

Bit of debate around this on fb:

https://www.fastrunning.com/opinion/comment/male-female-cross-country-races-distance/11107

As I discussed on fb, it does seem rather archaic that XC on its own still distinguishes between different race distances for men and women, when on the road and track we're competing over the same distances. I've got a love/hate relationship with the 15k Southern champs, although I guess it does actually suit my endurance bias.

Marathon shoes are here! My current Boston Boost only have just over 200 miles in them, but I'll keep them for MP long tempo training runs. These will have one short test run, then Bath Half Marathon, then the big one. Marginal bouncy gains and all that.

I don't like the southern at stanmer park. especially with train line engineering works and nowhere to park a car!

I like the course at Stanmer Park - up and down but the downs are gentle and runnable - but it's gonna be a ball-ache to get to.

I've never run Stanmer but I'm in for this year. Got to say 15k at Parliament Hill is always daunting, just seems to go on forever.

Penultimate round of the XC league this afternoon, flat 6ish miles around an equestrian centre including three times running through a water pit.

Ugh! Don't like the sound of that. Still, horses for courses... ;-)

We've got Surrey League Div 1, match 3 - bit of a biggie as we try to close the gap on Wimbledon who are currently top of the league. I've ranked myself 13/14 on the team start list but I suppose if one or two people drop out/don't perform, there's a danger of me making the scoring team of 10, so I'd best put some effort in. 5 miles over Farthing Downs, Coulsdon. Nice course, bit of up and down, mix of grassy downs and gravelly/tree rooted trails. Lots on an awkward camber so I'll be wearing the Inov8's rather than spikes.

Missing Woodbank Park today. After promotion last year, think relegation looms.

In other news Spine race is underway, dotwatchers.

Debate point within my clubs fb page is bigger step-up in distance will stop progression from u17 to Sen.

Slightly odder argument was pitched too (by Sen M runner) around extra damage underfoot meaning parks may be unwilling to host races!