Running

OK I'm a bit overwhelmed with looking for a watch. The DC rainmaker site is far too advanced for a noob like me.

All I really need one to do is connect with Strava afterwards so I can record my runs; and show me a live measure of my distance and pace so I'm not completely fucking myself up too early on if I'm running with lots of other people around me. I'm not too concerned about monitoring my heart rate.

If anyone can recommend an entry level watch that does this, I'd appreciate it. kthxbai

The basic Garmin is the Forerunner 10, which does everything you need. Crudely speaking, the functionality increases as you go through the ranges, 1x, 2x, 6x, 9x... I've got the 220 (which has been superseded by the 225 & 230) which I really like. Very comfy and light, good display. You might be able to get one of those for a good price since it's not the latest model.

An entry level roadbike and a flappy t-shirt were the order of the day yesterday. My girlfriend said I looked like an old guy heading to the shops compared to the other cyclists. I'll have a look at those threads.

@rhb that's the concern! May well have a look at the Trafford 10k, sounds like a decent spring target.

@dubkev I also use a 220 it does the job and you can attach various other sensors as your interest in more data develops.

@dubkev you can have my Forerunner 10 for £20 posted if you like?

Yeah you definately need full carbon, TT bars, skinsuit with face holes only,
makes you so much faster, and you can use it for sado masochist weekends with the missus too

Thanks for the recommendations of the forerunner. I am now reading up on the different models, with a bit more focus - there was just too much information out there without having a starting point.

Another runner in work was asking me how often I go out and what distance. At this point I'm usually doing at least 12km three nights a week, trying to ramp up to a regular 13km, and have done a couple of 15km runs. She said that if I was doing that much and using strava all the time, I should definitely try and get something decent, as I'd end up just wanting a better one if I got a basic one.

There aren't any of the 220 on sale any more. Is the only main difference between the 230 and the 235 is that the 235 measures your heart rate from your wrist?

£200 seems like a lot for a watch mind... still cheaper than a polo or track bike though!

She said that if I was doing that much and using strava all the time, I should definitely try and get something decent, as I'd end up just wanting a better one if I got a basic one.

I disagree to an extent. All GPS watches do the basics of distance/time/pace, with various options of recording more complicated sessions such as intervals by using the lap function. No matter how hard you train, this really does cover everything essential in my opinion. Extra functionality often includes things I wouldn't use anyway: virtual training partner, vertical oscillation (!), estimate of VO2 max (probably inaccurate), plus all the snazzy connectivity possibilities.

The only function on the 220 that wasn't on my old 305 which I find useful is cadence, but even that is more curiosity, rather than being of genuine benefit to my training.

Cool, let me know if you do come up for it, be good to say hello.

My Skinsuit has arm and leg holes too. Cost me extra of course.

Cadence is useful I think. If you look at top runners they run at a really high cadence, so I try to keep an eye on it and do shorter steps more often. Supposedly reduces the risk of injury too. I don't have cadence data available though, so I have to choose a playlist with the right BPM - I tend to run at 160-170 BPM but elite runners do 180 apparently.

More info here: http://mensrunninguk.co.uk/training/running-cadence/

You can generate Spotify playlists in a given BPM range here: http://sortyourmusic.playlistmachinery.com/ - you feed it a playlist then filter down to a BPM range. I found it very useful but a lot of my running friends didn't seem to care

record my runs; and show me a live measure of my distance and pace

Strava phone app will do this if you can find a way to carry it in an easy to glance at way.

Better still, spend some time practicing pacing so you're not fucking it up early on if in a group. Hrm might be better for that, though it can also be done tech free using rpe.

Fwiw I use a Polar Rs100 hrm to monitor effort and phone strava to log run.

What I found out after having my 220 for a while is that there's such a strong correlation between my pace and cadence. Easy run: high 170s, marathon pace low 180s, 5k/intervals high 180s. I've never experimented with monitoring cadence while I'm actually running (e.g. use it for pacing in a race like you might with HR) but I suppose it makes me more conscious of trying to keep the running form in good shape when things start getting difficult.

I don't listen to music when I'm running but I can see matching BPM as being useful. I can distinctly remember hearing some music during a marathon that was presumably suppose to be motivational, but was just marginally below my cadence and subsequently extremely off-putting!

What I found out after having my 220 for a while is that there's such a strong correlation between my pace and cadence. Easy run: high 170s, marathon pace low 180s, 5k/intervals high 180s. I've never experimented with monitoring cadence while I'm actually running (e.g. use it for pacing in a race like you might with HR) but I suppose it makes me more conscious of trying to keep the running form in good shape when things start getting difficult.

Interesting, so your stride length is probably fairly constant and when you want to go faster you just take more steps.

I can distinctly remember hearing some music during a marathon that was presumably suppose to be motivational, but was just marginally below my cadence and subsequently extremely off-putting!

Yeah, majorly! It throws me off if I listen to something weird in 3/4 time or 5/4 or 7/8 or whatever as well.

Can't get the phone out of my running tracksuit pocket very easily, and I have it wrapped up in a plastic sandwich bag to stop it getting covered in sweat. Then have to unlock the screen to see how far I've gone or my pace, as the music player takes up the notification locked screen, if that makes sense.

I'll have a look at that Polar one now, thanks.

Another (free) option would be to get the phone to read out your pace/total time/total distance every 1km or something. Not sure if Strava can do that these days - fairly sure it didn't used to - but I know other apps can.

Edit - it can: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919057-Audio-Announcements-Android

Edit edit - of course that means you don't get a shiny new watch. It's still worth getting one if you don't always run with your phone, or you don't want to deplete your phone battery on a long run, or if your phone GPS is shit (like mine), or some other reason.

Would second philpub's forerunner 10 suggestion for an entry level watch. Only downside is that it takes a little while longer to find the satellites at the start of the run. Can be a bit annoying. If your budget stretches further then go for the forerunner 220. I've got it and can't fault it.

Left the house in the dark this morning, didn't take a head torch. Should have taken a head torch! Ended up carrying my phone using the torch to light about 2m in front of me for the best part of 9 miles. Lesson learned.

Saw a guy sleeping under a bridge about 2 miles from the nearest civilisation, still wearing his (switched on) headtorch. #csb

Speaking of watches, I have a Forerunner 410 ( https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/01/garmin-forerunner-410-in-depth-review.html ) going spare if anyone wants it.

It works fine but the touch bezel isn't great in the wet. Never found it that much of an issue because I was already running by the time it got wet and didn't need to change anything. The Ant+ to upload the activities to PC can be a little inconsistent but I found that to be the case with a whole variety of Garmin stuff using Ant+.

Went on my first dark run last night, quite spooky up in Northumbrian countryside didn't make ardacius mistake though and took a headtorch.
2 things about the run:
-stormy wind made it feel like an adventure
-running with hills is fun, frustrating that there's none nearby at home in Manchester

£200 seems like a lot for a watch mind... still cheaper than a polo or track bike though!

Pre Christmas last year Garmin (and most of it's competitors) dropped the prices their range a fair bit. No idea if they will this year but if you can hang on that might get you a 230/235 for a better price.

This is something I've been struggling with with my Forerunner 25 (also entry level). I get out of the house and it can take anywhere from 20 seconds to 10 minutes to find the satellites. I can't seem to work out why it takes longer some days than others, but standing round waiting for 10 minutes is very annoying! I probably only record 2 out of every 3 runs because of this.

Is it better on more expensive models?

I've not had a problem with mine (630, 620 and 310xt) since I had a 305. I used to turn it on before i went out and leave it on a window sill to get a signal.

i think that some of them get an updated list of where the satellites are going to be which makes the fix happen quicker. so if you are not regularly connecting and updating with garmin connect maybe give that a go

The position of GPS satellites change, so some vendors of GPS watches upload a file to the watch which tells it where to look to get fixes.

Any receiver needs three fixes to get a position so it can take time, especially in urban areas with high rise buildings.

http://gpsinformation.net/main/almanac.txt for (slightly old) info on the two types of data required for accurate satellite tracking.

Modern GPSes will grab the latest almanac off wifi or when syncing with phone/comptuer if setup that way.

Run4it having an offer on running Garmins at the moment.

https://www.run4it.com/shop-by-brand/garmin

(No connection to them, have used them in the past, just got a timely email advertising their promotion in my inbox.)