Lost for words

Quite clearly everyone should back the research being carried out in France on a Fusion reactor, safe, clean, and if we could only get say 10 units of energy out for 9 in, rather than 10 out for 100 in we'd be sorted.

Food shortages etc are all down to energy shortages, as are most things if you look at the underlying situation.

Well, this thread has not worked out as I hoped it would.
Ok, it's not 'my' thread I suppose but even so...
As I said I wasn't looking to start a thread about whether or not climate change is real/man made but to see how people who accept that view feel.
It's strange that when it comes to the recession people will talk about their fears and anger but when it comes to having their, or their children's, lives permanently ruined, the prospect of mass death and wars, injustice; nothing.

You lot are really weird.

Well I spose with the recession and all people feel like they can do something e.g. reigning in the greed and consumption for a few months.
Imminent population and habitat destruction through severe climatic changes is something that arguably, even the most well intentioned person is now fairly powerless to prevent, and therefore contemplating it can be rather a daunting and depressing affair. And it all seems rather abstract and difficult to visualise, another thing that might dissuade people from thinking too much about it.
Possibly.

Well, this thread has not worked out as I hoped it would.
Ok, it's not 'my' thread I suppose but even so...
As I said I wasn't looking to start a thread about whether or not climate change is real/man made but to see how people who accept that view feel.
It's strange that when it comes to the recession people will talk about their fears and anger but when it comes to having their, or their children's, lives permanently ruined, the prospect of mass death and wars, injustice; nothing.

You lot are really weird.
I've been avoiding talking about how this makes me feel as work has been getting in the way and it's a rant that likely needs some time to iterate fully. As soon as I get a spare minute I'll fill you in.

It makes me angry.
It makes me feel disparaged.
It make me feel worried.

How do you feel wiganwill? (and don't say with your hands)

The recession hits home a bit harder.
We are all human and therefore selfish. I do worry for my daughter and possible future grandchildren (a long way down the line) and we do our bit, eco bulbs, use the car less turn things off, recycle etc. I think we could all do more and that it could be a lot easier to do more.
I don't buy into the we're all doomed scenario although I don't think that we're doing ouselves (or the planet) any favours either.
As said earlier the planet will sort itself out, it always has done and mankind may be fucked, but I think that it will be by mans hands, guns, bombs et al rather than C0 2 emmissions.

Right now my family are all in good health and we want for nothing, this is all I can hope for.

Well, since you ask. It makes me thankful I don't have children (and am unlikely ever to have any unless medical science makes some unexpected breakthroughs/I ever get a date).
It feels surreal to me; the world, in one lifetime, is going to change beyond recognition and entirely for the worse but next to nothing is being done. It is the biggest disaster that humans have ever faced and it is not going to be stopped, it's not even, according to the article, even going to be mitigated very much.
I am glad that I won't be around to see it and when I look at me friends' little children I feel upset. As Richard Thompson sang "There's nothing at the end of the rainbow, there's nothing to grow up for any more".
There is no hope, that's what I feel.

Time to take advantage of the slump in the property market to buy somewhere a) high up, and b) with some arable land then Will, that'll prove to be a wise investment if you believe the climate change gravy train.

The recession is immediate and tangible. It is also something you can mitigate.
Climate change is too big, too wooly, and you can't do anything to stop it so there is no point worrying about it.

For the record I accept that climate change is real. I don't accept that we know nearly enough about how it is going to turn out (the head of the IPCC admits that the earth has been cooling for a decade, by the way, Richard Cheese), and I don't accept that humans are remotely capable of being the cause or cure. It's just our own self-importance that makes us want to take the credit/blame. But there is a massive industry based on promoting the idea that we can and should. Fear = power. I think that actually the earth can and will look after itself.

This article I saw today might cheer a few of you doomsayers up
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html

I think that any resources we do throw its way should be directed towards helping us cope with it and survive it, and it annoys me that instead we waste billions trying to stop it.

I also live in what I consider to be a pretty green way. I walk or cycle when I can, I do not drive a car, or use trains, tubes or buses if avoidable, and I was 34 before I got on an aeroplane. I reuse and repair things. I do not feel any need to wallow in middle-class guilt about my lifestyle, so perhaps that makes me the sceptic. But then I'm sceptical about everything.

Wiganwill, when people chose to have children they accept that their children will be at risk one a way or another. War, famine, diseases etc..

It is very difficult for us to understand the extreme conditions that nature can throw at us. Earthquakes, drought, floodings happen but very few of us (on this forum) have ever been affected by it. If they happen we will cope one way or another. We might die because of them or adapt. The media is very quick to come up with very negative, gloomy views, it sells better. Remember we were all going to die of mad cow disease and chicken flu.

We must not be negative, desperate about it, what good is it going to do? We are going to die but in the meantime live well and positively. There is always a way to make some positive out of what looks like an impossible situation.

VeeVee, much as I like you and know that you're a very caring and compassionate person your take on this is so Panglossian.
The people who are already the poorest and most wretched are the ones who will suffer the effects of climate change the earliest and the most severely. They are also the people who have benefited the least - if at all - from the 'development' that has caused global warming. How anyone can spin a positive way of looking at this grotesque injustice and horror is beyond me.
Global warming will lead to more wars; there are already conflicts that have their roots in the need for water and this will get much worse. The chances of a nuclear war are now higher than they have ever been. Everything that is awful and cruel about human existence will increase.
If the papers are so keen to spread doom and gloom then why was this article on page 25 of the Guardian? It is, by a huge margin, the most important story in the paper. The problem has been that the media has been so catastrophically bad at reporting this issue, not by sensationalising it but by down playing it.
To compare it to bird flu and such stories is misleading.
My feeling is that it doesn't matter what I do now; doesn't matter if I recycle or if I heat my flat entirely by burning polar bears, it's too late. The argument about climate change was settled ten or even twenty years ago and there was a chance then to stop it; it didn't happen because of the greed and psychopathic ideology of large corporations and their friends in the media and, most of all, in the White House during the last eight years. The likely legacy of George Bush will be the extinction of human life.

In the long-term we city people are going to suffer the most as we are totally unequipped to survive in the real world. All I know is to switch on the light, shop, open the fridge to find my food and open the tap to get water, play with a computer and discuss the world in the comfort of my chair. How to find food and clean water? Deal with the basics? No idea!?

can we relate this to mosques, and mother theresa and get Tynan involved?

No.

If the papers are so keen to spread doom and gloom then why was this article on page 25 of the Guardian? It is, by a huge margin, the most important story in the paper. The problem has been that the media has been so catastrophically bad at reporting this issue, not by sensationalising it but by down playing it.

because science, and in general other "hard subjects" are complex and require thought and proper writing and experimental evidence. it's why, scientists have traditionally lost the media war when playing against greenpeace, anti-gm, and other types who believe in mystic powers. (sorry. that was low and uncalled for)

because, it's more important to face the "should we let somebody die with dignity?" question on the front page. or "Should we allow the person who is going to be responsible for this life, terminate a small ball of cells that aren't quite a person and won't be functional as a person for another number of weeks, actually be able to make a decision about their future?" or "should we focus on someone being evil, rather than them not being picked up in time?"

/stands off soap box.

to your original point will.

i'm scared. i seriously think there are going to be massive upheavals, death, famine, riots. and if we're unlucky the overthrow of those in charge. to be replaced either by something even more horrific and militaristic or by a bunch of idiots who want to take us back to the age of stacking mud in piles.
i worry about having kids when i think human life as i know it is finished.

someone said that we're like king canute. and in a way that's true. at some point there won't be any humans, and the dominant form of life will take over the world. bacteria, fungi, protozoa and other microscopic life forms. it was good while it lasted, but we're all just dust in the wind dude. dust in the wind.

because science, and in general other "hard subjects" are complex and require thought and proper writing and experimental evidence. it's why, scientists have traditionally lost the media war when playing against greenpeace, anti-gm, and other types who believe in mystic powers.

Well said.

it was good while it lasted

I will drink to that.

mine's a guinness. thanks.

The last I checked there were a lot of fat Brits as well, who love their steak and potatoes as much as the next fat American...

This is not true. They eat chicken and chips.