Aerodynamics / Aerodynamic Cost / Aero parts

That's only one decent poo. ;)

My point was more that he's only doing 12 days training for an event that has so much money to get over there? If he's already racing them then I guess it's just on top of what he was doing plus it sounds all a bit 'last minute' so maybe that's all the time he got.

I'd love to do stuff like that but I'm already over-committed on the cycling front. googles 24hr hpv record

Actually it really was last-minute. I’m not sure why it was, but I think they weren’t expecting the bike to be ready in time. It was always going to be about testing as it was a new machine but yeah, it does seems a bit mad sending an untested bike all that way with a rider who hadn’t had more than a couple of hours of riding it. Hopefully they’ll make a better job of it next year.

Mike B has some interesting ideas on the design - his plan was to make it very light weight to keep the rolling resistance down, as at that level of aerodynamics (laminar flow etc) every tiny difference adds up. He just went too far for a 200m record bike. It’d be ok for an hour record, I reckon.

it does seems a bit mad sending an untested bike all that way with a rider who hadn’t had more than a couple of hours of riding it

Hopefully they’ll make a better job of it next year.

You've answered your own question there. Actually going to BM this year, even with a bike and rider not ready for prime time, will have revealed things which staying at home wouldn't, and which will make them better next year than they would have been without the experience.

They would learn a lot from meeting all the other teams, plus their rider got to try out another team's bike.

Sure, but it's an expensive way to find out the thing doesn't actually handle at speed and doesn't meet their safety requirements. They could've tested locally to find it wasn't ready and still sent one team member to the race for intel gathering. They did get a run in though so if they're not struggling for money, no harm done. Who funds the team?

as a trintelope with an interest in tt'ing I like the look of the new Shiv Tri, particularly that they have designed to get low at the front I don't like the price, also not sure how easy it would be to refill on the go, given there's now way of carrying a standard bottle on the frame based on the pics ive seen.

Hopefully once it enters mass production it might be a bit more affordable!

My missus last night said it "looked nice... right up until a 5 year old drew the back end of it".

Hopefully once it enters mass production it might be a bit more affordable!

Only a bit; the £11k build only seems to have £5k of parts on it, so dropping down to Ultegra with metal wheels and no power meter only gets the complete bike down to about £8k. Basically, the fuselage is £6k, which is not surprising as the ancient UCI-legal S-Works TT fuselage is still £4.5k

bottle on top tube:

Looks like bottle tube bosses on the seat tube there as well.

the new Shiv Tri

Where to start on that. The gap between the seatpost and that rear sail for a truly horrible aero transition on quite a big aero surface. The fat ED209-shaped brake levers followed by clunky bar tape that doesn't line up, followed by a step at the back. uncovered holes in the aero bars. I know it folds, but the fricking frontal size of that base bar. What's going on with the gussets on the underside of the aerobar mount? Why are the arm rests so fat with everything filled in? Flat back on the downtube all the way down. At least tape some of those gaps up so it looks a bit more aero. The whole thing is a fucking mess and would bring some of my F1 colleagues out in a cold sweat.

https://enve.com/products/ses-disc/

Integrating brake levers into bars, has it been done? If not why not?

It has been done. USE Tula, etc.

Are the 3T Ventus levers integrated?

Any links? Why is it not more commonplace? It must save a tiny bit over say TT levers and a fair bit over STI shifters

Because the gains are probably quite minimal and the drawbacks include setup drama, limited brake options (and gear options if you need Di2 shifters anyway), stupid braking position.

I should have done more googling, this Zipp bar has it too https://www.triathletesports.com/zipp-vuka-aero-bar-base-bar-brake-levers/

But no one's done drop bars as far as I can tell?

Because the gains are probably quite minimal and the drawbacks include setup drama, limited brake options, stupid braking position.

Those reasons have never stopped people before!

I'm thinking that integrating brake levers/hood area/cables into bars, removing STI levers in favour of Di2 blip/climbing things would save a fair bit. Not worth it for normal people obviously, but for a pro in the TdF or whatever who can afford to spend £1000 on a fully integrated cockpit I can imagine it.

Also if you crash, you've fucked bars and two lever sets, rather than just maybe a lever or maybe bar and lever. Teams with big budgets don't do it, even though they know it's possible. They might if they thought the gains were worth the wrenching effort. I've never used integrated levers but I bet they'd be inferior to proper levers and braking is still pretty important on pro TT courses. Those Tulas, etc. are better suited to CTT dragstrip courses.

Mk1 are yes, Mk2 are not

Yeah, knew there was a catch.

Folk's'll pay for oversized jockey wheels and £150 chains, I'm sure I could sell my one-use super-aero bars. Only £980/set. No refunds or warranty offered.

I saw this bike which is what prompted me to think about this, if you turned that front bit into a brake lever instead of a weird little handle:

"Some" folks will, you're right about that. But if the market is as small as I imagine it is, you'll end up paying more to build them than you'll make.

I'm thinking that integrating brake levers/hood area/cables into bars, removing STI levers in favour of Di2 blip/climbing things would save a fair bit

Then you need to think a bit more. The brake lever and hood is a major comfort and control interface, you make substantial changes to their shape in pursuit of aero gains at your peril. Ignore gear levers, they are already electric on all high end bikes and aerodynamically insignificant. Ignore cables too, as the switch to hydraulic brakes joins the switch to electric shifters in eliminating the last impediment to full enclosure, the unwillingness of Bowden cable to play nicely with tight corners.

comfort and control ... you make substantial changes to their shape in pursuit of aero gains at your peril

TT bikes wouldn't exist if comfort and control were always more important than aero

Regardless for a bar like the above in the drops the comfort in the hand would be the same. You just (maybe) lose out on riding on the hoods.

I am just surprised that no one seems to have done it, that's all

You just (maybe) lose out on riding on the hoods.

On the hoods is the primary position on a modern road bike.